DOI fails again

[Andy Onchan]

1 hour ago, 2112 said:

The NPM reports the DOI has been fined £18000 having been in breach of H&S laws as a result of an electric tram derailment. Don’t worry folks, Minister Thomas will be hitting social media to defend his department. Perhaps he may care to pay the fine out of his salary? Fine the taxpayer, and the person committing the offence walks away, with their pensions intact. 

I wonder what the mitigation was for not handing down the max fine of £20K?? And shouldn't that be for each offence?

[The Phantom]

33 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

I wonder what the mitigation was for not handing down the max fine of £20K?? And shouldn't that be for each offence?

A fine surely acts as a financial incentive to not do something wrong.  This only really works if it's your money.  If it's not and no one is going to get bollocked (which appears to be the case here) it's a completely pointless exercise for one Govt Agency to fine another Govt Agency, other than to waste a whole lot of time and effort, when they could hopefully be doing something productive with their time. 

[Non-Believer]

46 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

Maintenance or lack of.

Remember, DOI (and by extension some of their constituent organisations) don't 'do' maintenance.

"Savings"....

[CallMeCurious]

4 hours ago, 2112 said:

The NPM reports the DOI has been fined £18000 having been in breach of H&S laws as a result of an electric tram derailment. Don’t worry folks, Minister Thomas will be hitting social media to defend his department. Perhaps he may care to pay the fine out of his salary? Fine the taxpayer, and the person committing the offence walks away, with their pensions intact. 

And gets another opportunity to try it with a tram full next time. Maybe MR Thomas ought to look at the tram driving license criteria and make 'that fairer'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-isle-of-man-65067092

 

[CallMeCurious]

1 hour ago, The Phantom said:

A fine surely acts as a financial incentive to not do something wrong.  This only really works if it's your money.  If it's not and no one is going to get bollocked (which appears to be the case here) it's a completely pointless exercise for one Govt Agency to fine another Govt Agency, other than to waste a whole lot of time and effort, when they could hopefully be doing something productive with their time. 

They'll be covered anyway by the 25% rise in driving license fees too. So they won't even lose it out fo their budget.

[2112]

2 hours ago, Andy Onchan said:

I wonder what the mitigation was for not handing down the max fine of £20K?? And shouldn't that be for each offence?

Perhaps any individuals at fault, either through lack of maintenance or record keeping, should be penalised. Nobody wants to take responsibility, neither staff, management and certainly Minister Thomas doesn’t want to know.

[Andy Onchan]

1 hour ago, The Phantom said:

A fine surely acts as a financial incentive to not do something wrong.  This only really works if it's your money.  If it's not and no one is going to get bollocked (which appears to be the case here) it's a completely pointless exercise for one Govt Agency to fine another Govt Agency, other than to waste a whole lot of time and effort, when they could hopefully be doing something productive with their time. 

Absolutely agree.

In an ideal world both Longtail & Black should have been brought in front of Tynwald to make a public apology and have their pensions withdrawn. We could have been looking at multiple deaths with that runaway tram on the mountain. It's quite staggering to think that if there were deaths those who were in charge could have literally gotten away with murder.  

[CallMeCurious]

6 minutes ago, 2112 said:

Perhaps any individuals at fault, either through lack of maintenance or record keeping, should be penalised. Nobody wants to take responsibility, neither staff, management and certainly Minister Thomas doesn’t want to know.

Think the phrase is "Duck and Cover...then start throwing shit" applies.

[Andy Onchan]

7 minutes ago, 2112 said:

Perhaps any individuals at fault, either through lack of maintenance or record keeping, should be penalised. Nobody wants to take responsibility, neither staff, management and certainly Minister Thomas doesn’t want to know.

See above.

[paswt]

17 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

Absolutely agree.

In an ideal world both Longtail & Black should have been brought in front of Tynwald to make a public apology and have their pensions withdrawn. We could have been looking at multiple deaths with that runaway tram on the mountain. It's quite staggering to think that if there were deaths those who were in charge could have literally gotten away with murder.  

Section 37 of the H&S at Work Act 1974 states " where an offence under any of the relevant statutory provisions committed by a  body corporate is proved to have been committed with the consent or connivance of or to have been attributable to any neglect on the part of any director, manager, secretary other similar officer of the body corporate or a person who was purporting to act  in any such capacity, he ,as well as the body corporate shall be guilty of that offence and shall be liable  to be proceeded against and punished accordingly"

Given the above I would be interested to learn why Mr Longworth  was not prosecuted.

Similarly perhaps no action will be taken against the CoC and the Motorsport team in the event of yet another fatal incident at "Casey's" on the mountain  ( 5 "offs" ,2 fatals)  by the H&S inspectorate.  

I have correspondence confirming that the CoC deems air fencing unnecessary  and would hope that in the event of another fatality he should be prosecuted under H&S A W Act and/or charged with  manslaughter but expect  that the IOM  mantra of "lessons have been learned" ,will be trotted out  which they demonstrably haven't. 

just saying 

 

 

[Blade Runner]

If you have friends or family then tell them NEVER to go on that mountain railway.

It is fundamentally unsafe due to the "emergency brake" that passengers sometimes have to apply themselves....See above for details and the attempt to keep that secret.

Then even, the  NORMAL BRAKES , NOT EVEN THE EMERGENCY ONES, rely on the electric motors for slowing down the trams, ergo, when the tram does not have contact with the electric line for many reasons the braking "System" does not work.

It is only a mater of time until there is a multi fatality on that railway due to trying to keep it "Heritage"

[Chris Thomas]

3 hours ago, 2112 said:

Perhaps any individuals at fault, either through lack of maintenance or record keeping, should be penalised. Nobody wants to take responsibility, neither staff, management and certainly Minister Thomas doesn’t want to know.

I do want to know and I think I do know. Please send me any evidence and information about the legal arguments in this case that you think I might not know.

[Chris Thomas]

23 hours ago, Dirty Buggane said:

Chris Thomas never knows when to stop talking, why use ten words when you can use several hundred and still manage to say nothing of any consequence. Makes no difference its all shite and drivel no matter what the subject.

How verbose. Just "tosser" sometimes.

[Passing Time]

16 minutes ago, Chris Thomas said:

How verbose. Just "tosser" sometimes.

enough about yourself though...

[0bserver]

2 hours ago, Blade Runner said:

If you have friends or family then tell them NEVER to go on that mountain railway.

It is fundamentally unsafe due to the "emergency brake" that passengers sometimes have to apply themselves....See above for details and the attempt to keep that secret.

Then even, the  NORMAL BRAKES , NOT EVEN THE EMERGENCY ONES, rely on the electric motors for slowing down the trams, ergo, when the tram does not have contact with the electric line for many reasons the braking "System" does not work.

It is only a mater of time until there is a multi fatality on that railway due to trying to keep it "Heritage"

Same on the Steam, Electric and horse trams. Their safety management systems are almost non-existent. 

There will be a fatality soon. 

The TT brigade would say "they've been saying that since [insert year here]"