DOI fails again

[Declan]

2 hours ago, Gladys said:

So what it has demonstrated is that the price is not the bar to increased usage, so it must be something else. Possibly timetable and routes. 

I probably used the bus less during the trial than in the equivalent months last year but the reduced timetable has impacted my use. For example, I used to get the bus from PE to PSM to visit the record shop then I'd get the next bus onto Castletown. But the move from an every 15 minutes service to a 20 minute service means in PSM there's one bus an hour from PE to Castletown an hour (and the bus in other direction arrives at the same time) so I just walk, which is apparently "good" for me. 

They way they introduced the fee was also a bit of a pain for me. Since my preferred "saver" options were unavailable or more difficult to get. For example the monthly saver was unavailable at the end of Feb and Mar when they were pondering and the 12 journey tickets were withdrawn. (For example, if I have a monthly pass I might break a Douglas to PE journey at Castletown. Or get the bus to the NSC rather than walk). 

[Passing Time]

4 hours ago, Declan said:

And the NSC/Bowl. 

Also gives South based commuters direct service to and from the offices in Summerhill etc. And means of an evening they can catch a bus home from the Prom. 

Ah, but if public transport was free/sensibly priced then catching two buses wouldn't be a problem

[Declan]

2 hours ago, Passing Time said:

Ah, but if public transport was free/sensibly priced then catching two buses wouldn't be a problem

True. Another factor is convenience though - you don't want to be waiting twenty minutes at the bus station with your cases because the bus from Onchan arrives 5 minutes after the bus to the airport.

[Passing Time]

1 hour ago, Declan said:

True. Another factor is convenience though - you don't want to be waiting twenty minutes at the bus station with your cases because the bus from Onchan arrives 5 minutes after the bus to the airport.

People all over the world get used to waiting for a bus so why should the Island be any different. To my mind, a bus every 30 minutes should be more than enough for anywhere on the island. If you can't or won't work with these times then the problem is with you not the timetable.

[CallMeCurious]

11 hours ago, Non-Believer said:

+1, we have how many £M of new buses in the fleet, WiFi equipped too, there can't be anything to complain about vehicle-wise? Perhaps we're just too impatient about our own personal journeys to put up with having to use communal transport?

Or maybe people value their time, comfort, convenience, practicality and privacy of a car? 

Park and ride can work really well if done right but this includes things like security, lighting and well laid out parking making it quick and simple to find a space and feel you and your car will be safe even at 6am or 10pm in winter.

To have a shuttle service for a primary route (say IOM Business Park, Peel Road to Bucks Road, Athol Street and Lord Street..) where you can get on a bus already waiting there, which departs as soon as the next one arrives behind it to unload its passengers. At peak times insert a few extra buses and have two at the stand so the first one goes as soon as it is full.

Have welfare facilities where people and staff can wait, so you can arrange to meet and travel on together.

Parking and tickets are all in one for the day or half day with discounts for regular users.

A ticket lets you get on and off the shuttle bus anywhere on its route that day as many times as you like.

Clear simple signage, average times to key stops and request stops at sensible locations.  

[Ringy Rose]

20 hours ago, Declan said:

And the NSC/Bowl. 

Also gives South based commuters direct service to and from the offices in Summerhill etc. And means of an evening they can catch a bus home from the Prom. 

It also gives a direct bus from the airport to the Prom hotels, which is important if we’re serious about tourism.

 

12 hours ago, Passing Time said:

To my mind, a bus every 30 minutes should be more than enough for anywhere on the island.

Do we want a public transport system that’s just enough, or do we want to actually make it attractive?

As a start, the south bus needs to go back to 4 buses an hour and the Peel bus needs to go back to 3 buses an hour. Hopefully now they don’t have the same driver shortages it will do.

Fares on the island are low- with a Saver card it costs me a quid a go from Farmhill- but still most people drive despite parking being seven quid a day in Douglas.

[Omobono]

but I can go from Liverpool airport to the city centre   for £2-80  , and there are several route options ,  so other   places in the UK  have come up with a cheaper formula  

where I live in Douglas  they discontinued our bus service ,and its about half a mile walk to the nearest bus stop  and up hill if you are coming back laden with shopping , thats why its more convenient to use the car .

 

[Declan]

14 hours ago, Passing Time said:

People all over the world get used to waiting for a bus so why should the Island be any different. To my mind, a bus every 30 minutes should be more than enough for anywhere on the island. If you can't or won't work with these times then the problem is with you not the timetable.

You might be right, philosophically, but if the aim is to increase bus use (for environmental reasons and to increase revenue) you have to consider customer service and ease of use. The bus company can't say to commuters "wait half an hour between the bus from the South until the one to Onchan, and if you don't like it you're the problem" because many will drive or work from home more or get a lift. 

Additionally, a half hourly service on the South route would be overcrowded during the day. People won't pay money to stand between Douglas and Castletown every day. 

 

1 hour ago, Omobono said:

where I live in Douglas  they discontinued our bus service ,and its about half a mile walk to the nearest bus stop  and up hill if you are coming back laden with shopping , thats why its more convenient to use the car .

 

I do sympathise with this situation it's not just Douglas if you live up Bradda, Creg neish, Grenaby in the South for example. 

I could probably be happy with the reduced service if that freed up capacity to less served places. I mentioned PSM to PE route effectively only having an hourly service as a result of the South route going from 4 to 3 an hour. Last time there was a 3 an hour service this issue was mitigated because there was a bus that did an hourly trip between PE, PSM and the Sound, which hasn't been reinstated. 

[Ringy Rose]

2 hours ago, Omobono said:

but I can go from Liverpool airport to the city centre   for £2-80  , and there are several route options ,  so other   places in the UK  have come up with a cheaper formula

Arriva Merseyside charge a flat fare. So not cheaper, just different.

2 hours ago, Omobono said:

where I live in Douglas  they discontinued our bus service ,and its about half a mile walk to the nearest bus stop  and up hill if you are coming back laden with shopping , thats why its more convenient to use the car .

There are parts of Douglas that are badly served by buses, I’m especially thinking the bottom of Tromode. There’s an hourly daytime bus down Johnny Watterson’s to the hospital- although heading into Douglas you get the magical mystery tour round Onchan first- but nothing around Bray Hill at all. 
 

I’m surprised we don’t see more use of the Mercedes minibuses, they’re the perfect size for the 4/14 round Saddlestone. Either that or divert at least one route at least to the bottom of Bray Hill and then into Douglas past the Terrace, rather than everything going along Peel Road.

But it’s the same in the UK. The trunk routes will get four or five buses an hour, but the estates will get nothing.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Ringy Rose

[Roger Mexico]

4 hours ago, Ringy Rose said:

As a start, the south bus needs to go back to 4 buses an hour and the Peel bus needs to go back to 3 buses an hour. Hopefully now they don’t have the same driver shortages it will do.

Fares on the island are low- with a Saver card it costs me a quid a go from Farmhill- but still most people drive despite parking being seven quid a day in Douglas.

There doesn't seem to be any return to the previous service pattern planned for Summer, at least according to the outline changes put to the RTLC recently.  Just a bit of tweaking and a few extra irregular services.  Chris Thomas may say that passenger numbers haven't returned to pre-pandemic levels, but neither have services and it's noticeable that even mid-week services during the day are more crowded than they used to be.

Prices are only reasonable compared to the dreadful service levels and fares that most of England has had to suffer since de-regulation.

[Passing Time]

5 hours ago, Ringy Rose said:

It also gives a direct bus from the airport to the Prom hotels, which is important if we’re serious about tourism.

Tourism is not going to happen any time soon - it's gone

Do we want a public transport system that’s just enough, or do we want to actually make it attractive?

A workable one would do fine

As a start, the south bus needs to go back to 4 buses an hour and the Peel bus needs to go back to 3 buses an hour. Hopefully now they don’t have the same driver shortages it will do.

You don't need four buses an hour to anywhere on the island

Fares on the island are low- with a Saver card it costs me a quid a go from Farmhill- but still most people drive despite parking being seven quid a day in Douglas.

Make all the bus fares £1 to anywhere on the island - that'll make it attractive

 

[doc.fixit]

We still go back to the practical aspect of use. We have to walk for nearly half a mile, then wait for the bus. Get to say Douglas going via goodness knows where. Walking to the shops, Tesco etc. Carry a trolley load of goods back to the bus. Struggle it onto the bus, storing the stuff, where? Repeat in reverse.

We are both nearly 80, a little incapacitated. 

So, doing the above is impossible and then add the weather, rain, wind, nowhere to stand out of the weather, no toilets at what was the bus station......................need I go on?

It's impractical and inconvenient. Sooooo, how can this be overcome in a sensible way for folk who live outside the main centres?

I certainly have no idea except to make it easier to park and stop hammering the motorist....maybe.....possibly............no idea really.

[Ativa]

13 minutes ago, doc.fixit said:

We still go back to the practical aspect of use. We have to walk for nearly half a mile, then wait for the bus. Get to say Douglas going via goodness knows where. Walking to the shops, Tesco etc. Carry a trolley load of goods back to the bus. Struggle it onto the bus, storing the stuff, where? Repeat in reverse.

We are both nearly 80, a little incapacitated. 

So, doing the above is impossible and then add the weather, rain, wind, nowhere to stand out of the weather, no toilets at what was the bus station......................need I go on?

It's impractical and inconvenient. Sooooo, how can this be overcome in a sensible way for folk who live outside the main centres?

I certainly have no idea except to make it easier to park and stop hammering the motorist....maybe.....possibly............no idea really.

If you lived up North you wouldn’t have any of those issues.

I think the connect service they run up there is great and often wish I lived somewhere that it operated.  If I did I would use it all the time.

Similar services are rolling out across the UK. So maybe that is the future For those not on the main routes?

[Ringy Rose]

2 hours ago, Passing Time said:

You don't need four buses an hour to anywhere on the island

If you want to tempt people out of their cars, frequency is important.

You’re tempting nobody out of cars with half hour waits.

There’s also capacity. The south buses are pretty full as it is at 3 buses an hour, they really could do with the 4th one going back in unless they’re going to only use double deckers.

[doc.fixit]

1 hour ago, Ativa said:

If you lived up North you wouldn’t have any of those issues.

I think the connect service they run up there is great and often wish I lived somewhere that it operated.  If I did I would use it all the time.

Similar services are rolling out across the UK. So maybe that is the future For those not on the main routes?

I live down North and have all of those issues!! Well I would if we didn't have a car or relatives close by.

How does the connect service help? It does not run in our village. Even if it did the luggage issue remains. 

Edited April 6, 2023 by doc.fixit