DOI fails again

[Andy Onchan]

What's wrong with normal scooters.

[The Bastard]

2 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

What's wrong with normal scooters.

What's wrong with pedal cars ?

[The Phantom]

1 hour ago, The Bastard said:

You'll note my argument with Omebono's post has nothing to do with tax and insurance, It's with their selective vision of the mass fatalities associated with their preferred mode of transport, whilst decrying another (safer) mode of transport for its perceived lack of safety. That's all. 

As usual, your counter-argument is centred around your motoring hobby that you seemingly can't see past whenever you discuss policy. Untaxed and uninsured personal mobility already happens with bicycles, including electric cycles that aren't that much different from scooters. It hasn't turned into a lawless free-for-all on the IOM with roaming gangs of anarchist e-cyclists causing hundreds of deaths.

Accidents will happen, as they do with skateboards, bicycles, non-powered scooters and rollerskates, but let me remind you that in the UK last year, there were more than 1,700 fatalities from (sometimes) taxed and insured vehicles being driven by (supposedly) trained drivers.

Elderly swingers trying to recapture their youth by thrashing round the TT course in their rusty old classics are not the target market here, but for younger people, they offer a seriously viable way to get around at minimal expense. They're not competing with grandad's old pothole-generating smoke-belcher, they're cheap, last-mile urban transport. They're for urban peeps heading into work or the shops, maybe heading to the bus stop, getting off the bus and scooting the last mile instead of driving in, or asking mum & dad to drive them. Just like bicycles, riders might be people who can't drive, aren't old enough, or no longer have the medical fitness. They don't need huge concrete carparks or expensive traffic calming schemes.

Cheap transport without tax and insurance is actually a benefit to the community, not a burden. A £300 uninsured, untaxed e-scooter replacing a £2k e-bike or £25K car is a good thing, particularly when you think about long-term cost both to the individual and IOM society. Enabling the people of the IOM to do easy last-mile transport without paying huge amounts of tax and insurance, and without huge amounts of accompanying local pollution and expensive infrastructure is also a good thing. 

I'm with @Stu Peters on this one. 

We don't live in an urban society on the Isle.  We basically have a medium sized town and some villages.  Comparing here to any urban centre in the UK is a mistake that many fall into. 

Bikes and E-bikes generally have big wheels, use roads and are limited in speed.  

In the same order, E-scooters have tiny wheels so are deadly when it comes to potholes on the road, because they are not taxed or insured, people inherently think they are basically a toy and for use on pavements.  The only suitable pavement would be the Prom.  They are also pretty damned quick so add that to the pedestrian dynamic if they are to be used on pavements.  

The whole 'Active Travel' and Bus Vannin bullshit also proved that 99% of the population can't be arsed to change anything and will drive in their cars no matter what. 

It's another giant waste of time.

Elderly swingers are also absolutely fine. 

[Declan]

Actually, thinking about it, if I lived a mile up hill from the nearest bus stop, cold and rain would be an incentive to escooter use.

Isn't it a freedom of choice issue? Subject to addressing safety concerns -if people want to use these contraptions why prohibit them?

 

Edited May 10, 2023 by Declan

[Dirty Buggane]

How long before some prat sets up the hire scooter, with no doubt a shitload of money from gov . Then fuck off into the sunset with a pocket full leaving the dross to be picked up and dumped or god forbid the gov backing it and the toys being left allover the island

[The Bastard]

Just now, The Phantom said:

I'm with @Stu Peters on this one. 

We don't live in an urban society on the Isle.  We basically have a medium sized town and some villages.  Comparing here to any urban centre in the UK is a mistake that many fall into. 

Bikes and E-bikes generally have big wheels, use roads and are limited in speed.  

In the same order, E-scooters have tiny wheels so are deadly when it comes to potholes on the road, because they are not taxed or insured, people inherently think they are basically a toy and for use on pavements.  The only suitable pavement would be the Prom.  They are also pretty damned quick so add that to the pedestrian dynamic if they are to be used on pavements.  

The whole 'Active Travel' and Bus Vannin bullshit also proved that 99% of the population can't be arsed to change anything and will drive in their cars no matter what. 

It's another giant waste of time.

Elderly swingers are also absolutely fine. 

Again, if you live in Ballakilpheric and want to get big Bertha back to your place for some viagra-fuelled disappointment after 70s night in the Legion, then an e-scooter is not for you.

But if you live in one of the urban/suburban areas and want to get into work or the shops every day without sitting in traffic and having to dash out to move your car every 2 hours , then it's viable. They don't deliver fuel to petrol stations in a Ford Fiesta, but that doesn't make them pointless as a vehicle. Pick the right scooter that can cope with the bumps, ride it carefully, job done. 

Every innovation takes time to become mainstream, there's a bell curve of early adopters and laggards. The skepticism there reminds me of negativity about the internet or BitCoin at the start - something new so has to be resisted/feared. The target market is not just stubborn old car drivers though, it extends beyond that.

[WTF]

3 hours ago, Stu Peters said:

 Simon Scrote on his electric scooter is none of those things and is effectively a law unto himself.

just like pedal cyclit then .....................

[Ativa]

29 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

What's wrong with normal scooters.

You end up with one massive leg and one skinny one.

Its the scooting equivalent of a w***ing arm.

[The Bastard]

13 minutes ago, Dirty Buggane said:

How long before some prat sets up the hire scooter, with no doubt a shitload of money from gov . Then fuck off into the sunset with a pocket full leaving the dross to be picked up and dumped or god forbid the gov backing it and the toys being left allover the island

That doesn't sound like a prat, that sounds like a fucking genius. When are you going to start ?

[Roger Mexico]

4 minutes ago, The Bastard said:

Every innovation takes time to become mainstream, there's a bell curve of early adopters and laggards. The skepticism there reminds me of negativity about the internet or BitCoin at the start - something new so has to be resisted/feared.

Alternatively it might be like the negativity about the Segway.  At best something that will end up as a niche toy.

I don't actually see much potential in the Island for these.  They work best in large urban environments which are fairly flat and have wide roads.  Only Douglas is really big enough to give genuine benefit and that's way too hilly.  The weight of the rider is a big factor as well - I can't see Stu getting up the Richmond in a hurry.  Maybe zapping about Ramsey or commuting between Ballasalla and Castletown might work.

 

[The Bastard]

Just now, Roger Mexico said:

Alternatively it might be like the negativity about the Segway.  At best something that will end up as a niche toy.

I don't actually see much potential in the Island for these.  They work best in large urban environments which are fairly flat and have wide roads.  Only Douglas is really big enough to give genuine benefit and that's way too hilly.  The weight of the rider is a big factor as well - I can't see Stu getting up the Richmond in a hurry.  Maybe zapping about Ramsey or commuting between Ballasalla and Castletown might work.

 

Yeah, point taken they're not for everyone in every situation. They'd be crap for the weekly shop if you live in St. Judes, but you'd also struggle to get a kayak in a Ferrari.

As you point out there are some niches for them though. Just because the client base will be small and in certain demographics doesn't mean that they shouldn't be legal. They won't replace every vehicle, but that's not the point of legalising them. 

[Andy Onchan]

8 minutes ago, Ativa said:

You end up with one massive leg and one skinny one.

Its the scooting equivalent of a w***ing arm.

Oh I say!

[The Phantom]

4 minutes ago, The Bastard said:

Yeah, point taken they're not for everyone in every situation. They'd be crap for the weekly shop if you live in St. Judes, but you'd also struggle to get a kayak in a Ferrari.

As you point out there are some niches for them though. Just because the client base will be small and in certain demographics doesn't mean that they shouldn't be legal. They won't replace every vehicle, but that's not the point of legalising them. 

Don't get me wrong, I think they probably should be legal.  It's just another example of our ridiculous beaurocracy we now have on this Island.  

It's just that they won't be some sort of panacea for the Island's travel issues.  A handful of sensible people will use them I reckon.  The majority will be chavs flying up and down pavements being a nuisance.  Someone will certainly be killed either riding them or being hit by one in fairly short order though. 

[Cambon]

4 hours ago, Stu Peters said:

The difference being that motor vehicles are tested, taxed, insured and their drivers are also trained and tested. Simon Scrote on his electric scooter is none of those things and is effectively a law unto himself.

Well, I can assure you, when one comes barreling down the pavement, full pelt at me, as an ex-rugby player, I will be a law unto myself as well! 

[The Bastard]

Just now, The Phantom said:

Don't get me wrong, I think they probably should be legal.  It's just another example of our ridiculous beaurocracy we now have on this Island.  

It's just that they won't be some sort of panacea for the Island's travel issues.  A handful of sensible people will use them I reckon.  The majority will be chavs flying up and down pavements being a nuisance.  Someone will certainly be killed either riding them or being hit by one in fairly short order though. 

Agreed, they're not a replacement for every vehicle in every situation, and accidents will inevitably occur at some point, just like with any vehicle.

Important thing is that it's the individual, not the vehicle that will be at fault. Poor driving is poor driving, whether that's running over a pedestrian in your Nova, crashing your Suzuki into the back of a bike on the mountain mile, or bumping into someone on a pavement. Actions should have consequences.