jackwhite Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 8 minutes ago, Boo Gay'n said: In business we assess capacity and capability, we think about knowledge, skills and experience and we provide traing and continuous professional development. Compare that to Tynwald and IOMG - woeful on almost every parameter. If you keep doing the same old thing, you'll always get the same old thing. You say that in business, not all businesses are like that. Also some do things to tick boxes and nothing else. You or your business may do these things. Not all businesses do. Like in business, there are some in Government who are actually good, and others who aren't. The issue with Government is that very few people have an overall voice. In reality, we need a change in our overall structure on the Isle of Man to something that is more equitable. What it is, I don't know. I do know that even in the likes of the UK, their system is far from perfect either. A democracy that allows us to do simple things though, like elect the Chief Minister, would be a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moghrey Mie Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 MHKs probably get elected with good intentions but the 'system' defeats them. Can you give examples of the incompetence and corruption you are complaining about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cissolt Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 7 hours ago, Moghrey Mie said: MHKs probably get elected with good intentions but the 'system' defeats them. Can you give examples of the incompetence and corruption you are complaining about? True, but out of the two candidates who would you have picked? Allanson is a wet lettuce yes man. Out of all the mhks who would you pick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 7 hours ago, Moghrey Mie said: MHKs probably get elected with good intentions but the 'system' defeats them. I agree with this but how frequently do they also accept defeat by the system? Let's take Stu Peters for instance (he's not one of my MHKs), elected at the last election by his voters and he's good enough to contribute to these boards on a regular basis. He'd been fairly critical of Govt on occasions previously in his previous employment so maybe people thought he could come in and shake things up a bit. Yet within weeks (if not days) of being elected, Stu is announcing on these boards of how long/difficult/hard it would be to change anything. The question would be, how did he arrive at this opinion so quickly after being elected? One could accept it after a year's experience or so, but after a matter of only weeks (or days)? The cynic might suggest that he'd received the "newbies' induction" about not rocking any boats (similar to the intake of female MLCs a couple of years back) and has succumbed to the culture (assimilated, even). Many appear to have their electoral desires and teeth blunted with indecent haste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Buggane Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 We must also bring up the elephant in the room. The civil service who are actually the ones who wield the actual power, and the inability of successive governments to rein in the phsicophantic empire building. The ability to cock up and walk away Scott free, in fact more likely to get a promotion and a raise so to avoid any comebacks due to incompetence.. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passing Time Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 22 minutes ago, Dirty Buggane said: We must also bring up the elephant in the room. The civil service who are actually the ones who wield the actual power, and the inability of successive governments to rein in the phsicophantic empire building. The ability to cock up and walk away Scott free, in fact more likely to get a promotion and a raise so to avoid any comebacks due to incompetence.. Fully agree. When was the last time a CS was ever held accountable? I won't hold my breath 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A fool and his money..... Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 It's very simple, they're paid far too much. They say every man (or woman) has their price, I think the price that pretty much all our political members have is below the £70K they are paid. If you want politicians with integrity, who are in it for the right reasons then you need to pay them below their price. Pay them the median wage, probably well over half their constituents will be surviving on less. I absolutely do not subscribe to the idea that you have to pay more money to get the best people. It's not a technical role and the correlation between intelligence an income is not strong. If you pay big money you get people who are greedy and self interested, the last type of person we need. Pay them enough to survive and you'll get people who are in it for the right reasons. We're not the UN, we don't need so many highly paid politicians and civil servants trying to run the place - far too many vested interests - far too many people in it for the money. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moghrey Mie Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 1 hour ago, cissolt said: True, but out of the two candidates who would you have picked? Allanson is a wet lettuce yes man. Out of all the mhks who would you pick? I think Chris Thomas is genuine in wanting to sort out the housing situation on the Island but he seems to ignore the 'communities' part of his remit. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 12 hours ago, Weliveinhope said: Do we need examples though? We can all agree that its not good enough, and I'm basically asking at what point do they stand up for their constituents and their own values and push for change. Well yes we do need examples. You say that “ we can all agree that it’s not good enough” If someone were to ask you “ well, what’s not good enough” what would you say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weliveinhope Posted March 3, 2023 Author Share Posted March 3, 2023 I would say look at the local news page of Manx Forums for a start. I'm slightly thrown by this, given you would have had to be living under a rock all of your life not to be aware of the numerous government fails both past and present. Health service, promenade, planning, Liverpool landing stage, increasingly large yet ineffectual civil service, civil service pension deficit, bullying within the civil service. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc.fixit Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 Over the past twenty or so years there have been lists and lists of disastrous decisions and bodge jobs. Just look back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackwhite Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 9 minutes ago, doc.fixit said: Over the past twenty or so years there have been lists and lists of disastrous decisions and bodge jobs. Just look back. There have been, hence why it's difficult to pinpoint now why the poster thinks there should have been some form of action, as opposed to 5/10/15 years ago. He seems to think though that MHKs are not doing what they were elected to do. I don't agree with that in certain instances. It's the system that's failing more than certain MHKs. Others I really don't know enough about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weliveinhope Posted March 3, 2023 Author Share Posted March 3, 2023 10 minutes ago, jackwhite said: There have been, hence why it's difficult to pinpoint now why the poster thinks there should have been some form of action, as opposed to 5/10/15 years ago. He seems to think though that MHKs are not doing what they were elected to do. I don't agree with that in certain instances. It's the system that's failing more than certain MHKs. Others I really don't know enough about. What an odd comment, just because its been going on for a long while, I cannot question it now? Ok the system is failing, so who would be responsible for fixing that? the public or the government? I do find some of the responses odd, given that there are thousands of pages dedicated to failures within the government, yet my post asking for MHK's to explain why they dont do more to bring the whole system into line is questioned. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passing Time Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 45 minutes ago, Weliveinhope said: What an odd comment, just because its been going on for a long while, I cannot question it now? Ok the system is failing, so who would be responsible for fixing that? the public or the government? I do find some of the responses odd, given that there are thousands of pages dedicated to failures within the government, yet my post asking for MHK's to explain why they dont do more to bring the whole system into line is questioned. The problem is that no matter what the problem / failing, nobody ever gets held accountable so instead, we have a go at the only visible ones which happens to be MHK's 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weliveinhope Posted March 3, 2023 Author Share Posted March 3, 2023 6 minutes ago, Passing Time said: The problem is that no matter what the problem / failing, nobody ever gets held accountable so instead, we have a go at the only visible ones which happens to be MHK's Agreed, but thats how its supposed to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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