MHK's vs Their Values

[Catrisk]

17 hours ago, Dirty Buggane said:

We must also bring up the elephant in the room. The civil service who are actually the ones who wield the actual power, and the inability of successive governments to rein in the phsicophantic empire building. The ability to cock up and walk away Scott free, in fact more likely to get a promotion and a raise so to avoid any comebacks due to incompetence.. 

After an election in 2021 we are now back to the full inertia point where nothing is happening and nothing will happen until MHKs start campaigning again for the next election as this administration, like all those in the last twenty or so years before it, has failed to deal with a civil service that’s totally out of control in every way. The Rob Callister thing shows that too. If you’re viewed as a threat (even though you’re a total known buffoon who will inevitably blow the job up anyway) you’ll be seen off in the quickest possible time via any dirty tactic going. This is how they work. Nobody wants change, nobody wants to be accountable for anything, and nobody wants to do anything over the bare minimum of what they’re required to do. And if they sense any threat to that the knives come out. There’s plenty of MHKs just fighting 24/7 to keep the knives at bay in a completely toxic environment. So nothing will, or can, change. 

[Passing Time]

2 minutes ago, Catrisk said:

After an election in 2021 we are now back to the full inertia point where nothing is happening and nothing will happen until MHKs start campaigning again for the next election as this administration, like all those in the last twenty or so years before it, has failed to deal with a civil service that’s totally out of control in every way. The Rob Callister thing shows that too. If you’re viewed as a threat (even though you’re a total known buffoon who will inevitably blow the job up anyway) you’ll be seen off in the quickest possible time via any dirty tactic going. This is how they work. Nobody wants change, nobody wants to be accountable for anything, and nobody wants to do anything over the bare minimum of what they’re required to do. And if they sense any threat to that the knives come out. There’s plenty of MHKs just fighting 24/7 to keep the knives at bay in a completely toxic environment. So nothing will, or can, change. 

As has been explained a number of times Rob, there are two ways to do things - the right way and the wrong way. Amazingly, you choose the wrong way every time...

[Catrisk]

4 minutes ago, Passing Time said:

As has been explained a number of times Rob, there are two ways to do things - the right way and the wrong way. Amazingly, you choose the wrong way every time...

Aside from your staggering inaccuracies (or poor attempt at humour) would you think Mr Callister would ever describe himself as a buffoon who would have been sacked anyway at some stage? 

[Stu Peters]

I'm not going to respond to any questions here as it's a sure-fire recipe for the usual suspects to pile on and use my own words against me. I've long been an MF poster on the basis I can have some fun and banter with regulars, even (most of) those who give me a hard time. I don't post on here to justify myself - you're stuck with me till at least 2026 when you can decide to vote for HiVibes instead.

But let me just say this. The popular and cynical attacks on MHK's, MLCs, commissioners and others is disheartening and counter productive. The current House of Keys comprises 24 elected people who are doing their best. I'm not aware of any subterfuges, villains or vested interests. We have a political system that goes back 1000 years and has evolved to suit the times. It's easy to point out mistakes and disasters (I used to make a living doing it) but it's much harder to stop them happening. And for every disaster there are dozens of successful decisions made and actions taken that you'll probably never hear of. 

We live in a changing world. Where we once listened carefully to Mr Churchill and did as he asked, society today is much more assertive of its rights. People complain (understandably) about the amount of bureaucracy here - but I would suggest it's no worse than anywhere else and probably better as anyone can email or phone me or others for a chat - try that in larger jurisdictions. We need all these people because the paper trail has to be robust and we need people to process all that, plus Subject Access Requests, FOI requests and a plethora of other things we have a 'right' to. People say we don't need 24 MHKs on £70k salaries because in the UK we'd be represented by one MP. Straw man argument - we have our own government, make our own laws and being in charge of a department serving 80k people is essentially as difficult as one serving millions. A presenter on a local radio station here on £30k does EXACTLY the same job as a Radio 2 star earning £2m - the size of the audience is immaterial (actually it makes a phone-in show much easier as you have hundreds waiting on the line to talk rather than just Bonzo or Quirky). And MHKs cost nothing like their UK equivalents - sure the salary isn't massively different but an MP can claim expenses which probably puts the average cost up to £250k pa. 24 MHKs is a pretty shallow pool of talent to run a government - but if you want the IOM to retain the constitutional powers it has and not become (shudder) a Merseyside constituency, it's not an unreasonable number.

There's also a lazy perception that MHKs do nothing but attend Keys on a Tuesday. I can't vouch for every single member, but all those I talk to on a regular basis see this as a 24/7 job with not enough hours in the day to achieve everything they want to do. Every one of them is doing the best they can, usually with a number of extra duties. I'm on the CLAJ Committee, OFT, Post Office and DoI and many members have a similar workload. It would be much easier to be a showboating backbencher but apart from getting you re-elected that doesn't actually achieve much.

Perception and perspective is vital. I'd reported on and discussed Manx politics for 20 years and thought I knew how it worked. I didn't, and you have to be in the arena to have a proper realisation. That's not to say you 'go native' or become part of the machine, but you soon realise there are few if any easy wins as most decisions you make or influence you apply usually has a number of unintended consequences. Some suggest we should pay our politicians less - which is a recipe for a return of the elites who can afford to work for free and look after their own interests.

It sounds easy-peasy. But it's not.

[Passing Time]

12 minutes ago, Stu Peters said:

. 24 MHKs is a pretty shallow pool of talent

It sounds easy-peasy. But it's not.

Should have left it at that. You wanted in so you're in but so far all you've done is bleat about how hard it is/I can't get things done and so on. Try coming on here and telling us what positive actions you have taken, That'll impress us more. 

[jackwhite]

24 minutes ago, Passing Time said:

Should have left it at that. You wanted in so you're in but so far all you've done is bleat about how hard it is/I can't get things done and so on. Try coming on here and telling us what positive actions you have taken, That'll impress us more. 

So if he lists a number of things he's achieved for his constituents, is that acceptable to you? Or would it have to be something earth shattering?

What do you think he could have done better to change things that he hasn't?

[Passing Time]

16 minutes ago, jackwhite said:

So if he lists a number of things he's achieved for his constituents, is that acceptable to you? Or would it have to be something earth shattering?

What do you think he could have done better to change things that he hasn't?

Doesn't have to be acceptable to me. It has to be acceptable to all the people who took the time to vote him in.

As I am not and never have wanted to be an MHK why do you think I could change things. May be the way I view things but seems like all the MHK's and wannabe MHK's promise whatever they feel is right at the time but constantly become a let down very quickly

[jackwhite]

19 minutes ago, Passing Time said:

Doesn't have to be acceptable to me. It has to be acceptable to all the people who took the time to vote him in.

As I am not and never have wanted to be an MHK why do you think I could change things. May be the way I view things but seems like all the MHK's and wannabe MHK's promise whatever they feel is right at the time but constantly become a let down very quickly

So how do you know it isn’t acceptable to the people who voted him in? 

Edited March 3, 2023 by jackwhite

[Boo Gay'n]

1 hour ago, Stu Peters said:

I'm not aware of any subterfuges, villains or vested interests.

I didn't have you down as naïve, but, jeez!

[Passing Time]

3 hours ago, jackwhite said:

So how do you know it isn’t acceptable to the people who voted him in? 

You're not that naive Jack...

[Anyone]

Who is the radio 2 star earning £2m a year? And I suppose if you were on radio 2 you’d get the same listening numbers as Ken Bruce who was not I believe on £2m a year. I like our  politicians to get their facts right if they are making a point. 

[HiVibes]

7 hours ago, Anyone said:

Who is the radio 2 star earning £2m a year? And I suppose if you were on radio 2 you’d get the same listening numbers as Ken Bruce who was not I believe on £2m a year. I like our  politicians to get their facts right if they are making a point. 

He is trying to make the point that £30,000 pa for doing a 2 hour show 5 days a week that he did no research for is a bad deal. Yes 10 hours a week, not even part time, which would put that at £120k pro rata, poor diddums.

The highest paid presenter on radio 2 is Zoe Ball who gets paid less now than previous years but never the £2 million claim.

▼ Zoe Ball - £980,000-£984,999

Radio 2's Zoe Ball Breakfast Show

2020/2021: £1,130,000-£1,134,999

2019/2020: £1,360,000-£1,364,999

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-62133808

Edited March 4, 2023 by HiVibes

[HiVibes]

17 hours ago, Stu Peters said:

It sounds easy-peasy. But it's not.

'He that is good for making excuses is seldom good for anything else.'

Benjamin Franklin

Or for Stu here is one with pictures...

 

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by HiVibes

[Hoops]

17 hours ago, Stu Peters said:

I'm not going to respond to any questions here as it's a sure-fire recipe for the usual suspects to pile on and use my own words against me. I've long been an MF poster on the basis I can have some fun and banter with regulars, even (most of) those who give me a hard time. I don't post on here to justify myself - you're stuck with me till at least 2026 when you can decide to vote for HiVibes instead.

But let me just say this. The popular and cynical attacks on MHK's, MLCs, commissioners and others is disheartening and counter productive. The current House of Keys comprises 24 elected people who are doing their best. I'm not aware of any subterfuges, villains or vested interests. We have a political system that goes back 1000 years and has evolved to suit the times. It's easy to point out mistakes and disasters (I used to make a living doing it) but it's much harder to stop them happening. And for every disaster there are dozens of successful decisions made and actions taken that you'll probably never hear of. 

We live in a changing world. Where we once listened carefully to Mr Churchill and did as he asked, society today is much more assertive of its rights. People complain (understandably) about the amount of bureaucracy here - but I would suggest it's no worse than anywhere else and probably better as anyone can email or phone me or others for a chat - try that in larger jurisdictions. We need all these people because the paper trail has to be robust and we need people to process all that, plus Subject Access Requests, FOI requests and a plethora of other things we have a 'right' to. People say we don't need 24 MHKs on £70k salaries because in the UK we'd be represented by one MP. Straw man argument - we have our own government, make our own laws and being in charge of a department serving 80k people is essentially as difficult as one serving millions. A presenter on a local radio station here on £30k does EXACTLY the same job as a Radio 2 star earning £2m - the size of the audience is immaterial (actually it makes a phone-in show much easier as you have hundreds waiting on the line to talk rather than just Bonzo or Quirky). And MHKs cost nothing like their UK equivalents - sure the salary isn't massively different but an MP can claim expenses which probably puts the average cost up to £250k pa. 24 MHKs is a pretty shallow pool of talent to run a government - but if you want the IOM to retain the constitutional powers it has and not become (shudder) a Merseyside constituency, it's not an unreasonable number.

There's also a lazy perception that MHKs do nothing but attend Keys on a Tuesday. I can't vouch for every single member, but all those I talk to on a regular basis see this as a 24/7 job with not enough hours in the day to achieve everything they want to do. Every one of them is doing the best they can, usually with a number of extra duties. I'm on the CLAJ Committee, OFT, Post Office and DoI and many members have a similar workload. It would be much easier to be a showboating backbencher but apart from getting you re-elected that doesn't actually achieve much.

Perception and perspective is vital. I'd reported on and discussed Manx politics for 20 years and thought I knew how it worked. I didn't, and you have to be in the arena to have a proper realisation. That's not to say you 'go native' or become part of the machine, but you soon realise there are few if any easy wins as most decisions you make or influence you apply usually has a number of unintended consequences. Some suggest we should pay our politicians less - which is a recipe for a return of the elites who can afford to work for free and look after their own interests.

It sounds easy-peasy. But it's not.

But it's 'said and done'. For instance, Hooper talking about tabling a question about Ramsey south beach and it's protection, and then dropping it as soon as he is re-elected. Barber raising issues with the meat plant, 'lost' paperwork, becomes minister - cups hand to ear.

To a degree, those talking change in the run up to an election are disingenuous, because without a party system to enable change, it's 24 disparate individuals helping their electorate with personal matters and leaving the running of the island to the cs.

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by Hoops

[Wake Up Call]

18 hours ago, Stu Peters said:

I'm not going to respond to any questions here as it's a sure-fire recipe for the usual suspects to pile on and use my own words against me. I've long been an MF poster on the basis I can have some fun and banter with regulars, even (most of) those who give me a hard time. I don't post on here to justify myself - you're stuck with me till at least 2026 when you can decide to vote for HiVibes instead.

But let me just say this. The popular and cynical attacks on MHK's, MLCs, commissioners and others is disheartening and counter productive. The current House of Keys comprises 24 elected people who are doing their best. I'm not aware of any subterfuges, villains or vested interests. We have a political system that goes back 1000 years and has evolved to suit the times. It's easy to point out mistakes and disasters (I used to make a living doing it) but it's much harder to stop them happening. And for every disaster there are dozens of successful decisions made and actions taken that you'll probably never hear of. 

We live in a changing world. Where we once listened carefully to Mr Churchill and did as he asked, society today is much more assertive of its rights. People complain (understandably) about the amount of bureaucracy here - but I would suggest it's no worse than anywhere else and probably better as anyone can email or phone me or others for a chat - try that in larger jurisdictions. We need all these people because the paper trail has to be robust and we need people to process all that, plus Subject Access Requests, FOI requests and a plethora of other things we have a 'right' to. People say we don't need 24 MHKs on £70k salaries because in the UK we'd be represented by one MP. Straw man argument - we have our own government, make our own laws and being in charge of a department serving 80k people is essentially as difficult as one serving millions. A presenter on a local radio station here on £30k does EXACTLY the same job as a Radio 2 star earning £2m - the size of the audience is immaterial (actually it makes a phone-in show much easier as you have hundreds waiting on the line to talk rather than just Bonzo or Quirky). And MHKs cost nothing like their UK equivalents - sure the salary isn't massively different but an MP can claim expenses which probably puts the average cost up to £250k pa. 24 MHKs is a pretty shallow pool of talent to run a government - but if you want the IOM to retain the constitutional powers it has and not become (shudder) a Merseyside constituency, it's not an unreasonable number.

There's also a lazy perception that MHKs do nothing but attend Keys on a Tuesday. I can't vouch for every single member, but all those I talk to on a regular basis see this as a 24/7 job with not enough hours in the day to achieve everything they want to do. Every one of them is doing the best they can, usually with a number of extra duties. I'm on the CLAJ Committee, OFT, Post Office and DoI and many members have a similar workload. It would be much easier to be a showboating backbencher but apart from getting you re-elected that doesn't actually achieve much.

Perception and perspective is vital. I'd reported on and discussed Manx politics for 20 years and thought I knew how it worked. I didn't, and you have to be in the arena to have a proper realisation. That's not to say you 'go native' or become part of the machine, but you soon realise there are few if any easy wins as most decisions you make or influence you apply usually has a number of unintended consequences. Some suggest we should pay our politicians less - which is a recipe for a return of the elites who can afford to work for free and look after their own interests.

It sounds easy-peasy. But it's not.

The Island is in a right mess. You and 23 others have been elected to sort it out. Your job is to fix the nonsense of public service and work out how to stimulate the economy. Please tell us how this is going to happen.