MHK's vs Their Values

[jackwhite]

Does this Government have many failings? Yes. 

Do I believe those are down to all of our MHKs? No.

It's the system that's broken to be honest. 

We've had regimes that have had significant failings and we haven't had this outpouring against them. Certainly online. Twitter is a cesspool for it. Accounts on there that literally just moan about the Government every day on every single Isle of Man related post. One the other day commenting on a story on a benefits cheat. How it was sad that the Government weren't held to account for mis-claiming funds. The obvious point they're missing is that the benefits cheat broke the law. 

There's lots of moaning going on in these threads and on there. I don't see any actual solutions being proposed.

[doc.fixit]

I think the solution of cutting top heavy management and number of MHKs, LCs and number of entities, eg local authorities has often been suggested.

[Shake me up Judy]

5 minutes ago, doc.fixit said:

I think the solution of cutting top heavy management and number of MHKs, LCs and number of entities, eg local authorities has often been suggested.

Endlessly. But it'll never happen.

[jackwhite]

6 minutes ago, doc.fixit said:

I think the solution of cutting top heavy management and number of MHKs, LCs and number of entities, eg local authorities has often been suggested.

So maybe people should actually do something about it rather than just moaning about it online.

I'm all for getting the Isle of Man to a better place. 

I think there is certainly some merit in what you're saying. MHKs not so sure. LC, possibly. I also think, yes, it would be possible to merge a number of the authorities. 

That said I don't see any desire amongst our current crop to shake it up. There are one or two that would certainly be happy to do so. There may be plenty of others who are just happy to be there making up numbers or taking the salary. 

So ultimately the buck stops with us. The people of the Isle of Man. I don't believe any of those voted in claimed they would revolutionise the system. You knew their manifestos when you were voting. How much have they deviated from it? I can only tell you my own MHK. Not much, if at all, is the answer. 

Beyond that you either need a group of people who want to get elected and do that. I don't see them currently. If you're that unhappy with the way it's going, why don't you run for election yourself? Change the system from within. Gather the support necessary to do that. 

Or alternatively you could do the easy thing and just spend your time and effort moaning on social media and forums.

[Non-Believer]

4 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said:

Endlessly. But it'll never happen.

Precisely, because the policy is purely based on short-term PS silo survival and that is all that matters. Look out for yourself and dog eat dog.

What is necessary will only be done when it is naturally forced and that is happening now, slowly but the pain that will be felt by the taxpaying resident while it does will be without precedent.

[Non-Believer]

10 minutes ago, jackwhite said:

Change the system from within. Gather the support necessary to do that.

We already elect people every 5 years who tell us that this is the way to approach the matter, some of them enthusiastic new faces promising much change.

Shortly after the Election they then tell us how difficult and hard it will be to change anything. And so it goes on. Meantime the old salts nod knowingly and concentrate on getting through to their superannuation.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Non-Believer
Extra bit

[jackwhite]

34 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

We already elect people every 5 years who tell us that this is the way to approach the matter, some of them enthusiastic new faces promising much change.

Shortly after the Election they then tell us how difficult and hard it will be to change anything. And so it goes on. Meantime the old salts nod knowingly and concentrate on getting through to their superannuation.

So are you going to do something about it or just continue to complain on here? 

[Non-Believer]

4 minutes ago, jackwhite said:

So are you going to do something about it or just continue to complain on here? 

Because I couldn't change anything and would be wasting my time. I've worked in the Public Sector here and have seen how it operates. It wouldn't be tolerable or sustainable anywhere else but it's comfortable for those in it, particularly at the top and turkeys don't vote for Xmas.

Why don't you? You appear to have many answers and solutions to include criticising everybody else for not having such.

[jackwhite]

1 hour ago, Non-Believer said:

Because I couldn't change anything and would be wasting my time. I've worked in the Public Sector here and have seen how it operates. It wouldn't be tolerable or sustainable anywhere else but it's comfortable for those in it, particularly at the top and turkeys don't vote for Xmas.

Why don't you? You appear to have many answers and solutions to include criticising everybody else for not having such.

I'm already too busy with my own things and wouldn't wish the life of an MHK. Regardless of what they do, they're always criticised. I also don't have the solution for it or claim to have. So I have no interest in it.

At the same time I don't come on social media criticising them for everything and looking for an excuse to have a moan. I'm not saying that's what you're doing but it's what a lot of people do. 

Honestly think some people need a reason to complain to get through their day. Think they're hard done to. Blame everything on other people. These are plenty of them on here. There are even more on Twitter. It's a pretty sad existence.

I've had help from my MHK. They can't change the system and I didn't ask them to. They did get involved in a government department for me though and quickly resolved the issue. That and to uphold their manifesto is all I ask of them. That they are doing. 

There are a handful of things I could think of to criticise IOMG for at this time. Not all of them under the current administration. However they've come up with a plan and I believe we should stick with it. I agree with the over-riding consensus of the plan. Things will need to change though. I don't think IOMG are ignorant to this. Some do. Some will think that regardless of what IOMG do. It gets them through their day. But they still won't do anything about it. Well other than complain.

Then you have to look at who is actually making these comments. That's if you can determine who is behind it. Many of them choose to remain relatively safe in the knowledge that most people don't know who they are. The Twitter accounts are the same. Many of them are simply furthering an agenda. There seem to be significant amounts of them atm. I say this in the knowledge that I'm comfortable writing what I am currently and fully aware I'm posting under a pseudonym. It's nothing I wouldn't say if anyone asked me the direct question though. 

I don't get why people would get themselves seemingly so angry on social media. They aren't going to do anything about it and really it's a pretty miserable way to live. Their choice I guess but in the end I just feel sorry for many of them.

 

[P.K.]

Change can only come from within.

Unfortunately...

I should imagine MLC's will oppose any kind of change as it's the easiest £60k anyone could possibly "earn"....

Now some claim the MLC remuneration isn't that great but if you were to work out the hourly rate it would be totally outrageous!

The "professional" MHK's who know which buttons to press to get re-elected will oppose change as well. You only have to look at what happened to Lisvane's recommendations to realise that. Sunk without trace...

So they will continue to blunder from crisis to crisis creating solutions that are guided by self-interest, short-termism and the silo mentalities of the public servants.

How singularly depressing...

[doc.fixit]

4 hours ago, jackwhite said:

So maybe people should actually do something about it rather than just moaning about it online.

I'm all for getting the Isle of Man to a better place. 

I think there is certainly some merit in what you're saying. MHKs not so sure. LC, possibly. I also think, yes, it would be possible to merge a number of the authorities. 

That said I don't see any desire amongst our current crop to shake it up. There are one or two that would certainly be happy to do so. There may be plenty of others who are just happy to be there making up numbers or taking the salary. 

So ultimately the buck stops with us. The people of the Isle of Man. I don't believe any of those voted in claimed they would revolutionise the system. You knew their manifestos when you were voting. How much have they deviated from it? I can only tell you my own MHK. Not much, if at all, is the answer. 

Beyond that you either need a group of people who want to get elected and do that. I don't see them currently. If you're that unhappy with the way it's going, why don't you run for election yourself? Change the system from within. Gather the support necessary to do that. 

Or alternatively you could do the easy thing and just spend your time and effort moaning on social media and forums.

JW. In my case, would you really like an almost 80 year old at the helm? IMO we have far too many older folk in charge with old, elitist ideals.

I don't believe the ballot box is a viable way of altering much so I can't believe that will work here.

I honestly don't know of any way to change things other than enough folk making their views known on a public or easily accessed forum. Our elected representatives are apparently ignorant of our views although I think that can only be lethargy on their part. The more views on forums such as this, may, just give interested parties some idea of the public's views. Of course the point being interested.

Someone gave a view a while ago that a lot of our elected seem to be more intent on creating grand symbols of their reign rather than looking after the voters and providing good, basic amenities and continual, good maintenance.

Just musings but maybe food for thought?

[jackwhite]

11 minutes ago, doc.fixit said:

JW. In my case, would you really like an almost 80 year old at the helm? IMO we have far too many older folk in charge with old, elitist ideals.

I don't believe the ballot box is a viable way of altering much so I can't believe that will work here.

I honestly don't know of any way to change things other than enough folk making their views known on a public or easily accessed forum. Our elected representatives are apparently ignorant of our views although I think that can only be lethargy on their part. The more views on forums such as this, may, just give interested parties some idea of the public's views. Of course the point being interested.

Someone gave a view a while ago that a lot of our elected seem to be more intent on creating grand symbols of their reign rather than looking after the voters and providing good, basic amenities and continual, good maintenance.

Just musings but maybe food for thought?

When I say people should do something about it, I don't mean one specific person. 

Obviously there will be reasons. In your case it's perfectly understandable. That said, would you notice with some of them at Tynwald! Little joke. In fairness I think you do yourself a dis-service as many people of your age would struggle to get on socials let alone put across points as coherently. 

I don't believe putting things on here does anything other than perhaps some form of therapy for some people. Social media even less so as I think the noise out there is deafening now and it's almost impossible to make yourself heard. The algorithm of these things also is designed for monetization, not necessarily for the good of the user. 

I think our elected are keen on just getting on with changing what they can. It's why most of them were elected in the first place. Truthfully, we don't know what they do all day every day. I also don't think they aren't aware of the issues and thoughts of the people. If anything I think most are acutely aware. 

The place to do things is out there in the real world. By all means back it up with social media. But if you want to make a significant change, put yourself out there (i.e anyone not you specifically), get the support from the people and anyone ele who is willing to put themselves out there to get into the positions of power, and by all means make the change. 

No one is saying we can't talk about issues. It's just the generally negative and snide tone in which it is discussed that defeats the argument of many before they even start.  

[Beyond Belief]

Then we should educate people to vote with their heads and not their hearts.  We sack/demote individuals for being bullies, and rightly so, but we reward for failure (the prom, the sea terminal, the systematic/ misogynistic bullying that goes on within max care, the failures within manx care, the failures within the education system, the list is endless). This is resonates with the 2008/2009 financial crisis.  We have an increasing elderly population that we fail to address, and  interestingly we don't report on migration.  Honest questions "why would you want to come and live here" "What does the Isle of Man have to offer"?    

[CallMeCurious]

Given the endemic culture of trying to silence critisism from within and without rather than addressing it and the willingness, it seems, to apply bullying tactics, I can fully understand why someone wouldn't want to put their head above the parapet.

Maybe if we had a free and independent press who did some active investigation and journalism, there might be a tad more accountability. When the government literally pays your wages (i.e. subvention = £1.1m (+ government advertising) and wage bill = £1.3m) then you are not going to bark at the hand that feeds you, let alone bite it.

 

 

[asitis]

On 3/6/2023 at 11:26 AM, jackwhite said:

There's lots of moaning going on in these threads and on there. I don't see any actual solutions being proposed.

But those of us who point out the realities aren't paid to problem solve ! We have rafts of highly paid civil servants, some supposed experts in their field, and a huge number of local and national politicos who are similarly rewarded for their efforts. People moan , yes I agree, but to suggest those people are somehow expected to solve the issues, rather than the people elected, salaried and qualified to do so is a bit far !