Electricity Price Hike

[Non-Believer]

1 hour ago, Happier diner said:

Well sort of yes. You are correct.The burden of cost was transferred from the DOT to the then water authority which then became the water and sewage authority. That then became Manx Utilities. Sewage charges were hidden in the rates..what happened after that is a mystery. Not sure if the sewage charges were handed over to the MUA. 

Smoke and mirrors?

The Toilet Tax was a standalone charge specifically raised to pay the huge loans that had been taken out by the MEA. The tax was initially levied at £50 per household at Rates time, round about 2012. Over time it raised to £100, then £150. Then it was incorporated into the Rates as a sewerage charge. There was then various shifting and rebalancing during Allinson's time as Chair of MUA, of Sewerage and Water Charges.

Water and Sewerage responsibilities were combined initially to form WASA. That was then subsequently combined with the MEA to form the MUA. Prior to that, Water had its own approved, sustainable loans in place in respect of its own development.

All this was designed for one purpose, and one purpose only, which was to scuff and fudge the tracks and responsibility for what had gone on with the MEA. It was to repackage the debt repayment charges in the expectation that their source and requirements for being would be forgotten about in order to absolve certain people for any accountability for it.

Memories are short, including one or two on these boards. Govt loves that.

[asitis]

5 hours ago, Non-Believer said:

All this was designed for one purpose, and one purpose only, which was to scuff and fudge the tracks and responsibility for what had gone on with the MEA. It was to repackage the debt repayment charges in the expectation that their source and requirements for being would be forgotten about in order to absolve certain people for any accountability for it.

Memories are short, including one or two on these boards. Govt loves that.

How everyone walked away from that unscathed is beyond belief. Mr Proffit interestingly had a Bentley, and lived in a huge detached property on Poolvaish, suddenly as the scandal broke the expensive house and cars were sold, much coincidence !

I realise why Government didn't do this, but it would have been wonderful to tell Barclays to get stuffed it was their problem. Of course Mr Proffit had recused himself from those negotiations being a Barclays member !

Again that word accountability had no place in the final outcomes, another sorry chapter in a history of sorry chapters !

Just imagine where the island could be now , were it not for a litany of financial incompetence and profligacy and a raft of senior positions who are clueless !

Edited March 15, 2023 by asitis

[2bees]

In the olden days governments would change the law to make loans they owed illegal and then created an affordable solution.

I don’t know why our government can’t do that. Tell Barclays they either renegotiate the rate or they’ll have it renegotiated for them. 
 

Mr Profit had a job to do, EPH failed to realise the costs involved in building things on the Island and went to the wall, what else could Profit have done? Leave us with a half built power station. EPH owed local businesses loads when they went too most unpleasant.

[GD4ELI]

35 minutes ago, 2bees said:

In the olden days governments would change the law to make loans they owed illegal and then created an affordable solution.

I don’t know why our government can’t do that. Tell Barclays they either renegotiate the rate or they’ll have it renegotiated for them. 
 

Mr Profit had a job to do, EPH failed to realise the costs involved in building things on the Island and went to the wall, what else could Profit have done? Leave us with a half built power station. EPH owed local businesses loads when they went too most unpleasant.

Were the government to do this then it would be challenged in court and they would lose. Also, no bank would even lend money on the island.

Very naïve suggestion.

[Non-Believer]

46 minutes ago, 2bees said:

In the olden days governments would change the law to make loans they owed illegal and then created an affordable solution.

I don’t know why our government can’t do that. Tell Barclays they either renegotiate the rate or they’ll have it renegotiated for them. 
 

Mr Profit had a job to do, EPH failed to realise the costs involved in building things on the Island and went to the wall, what else could Profit have done? Leave us with a half built power station. EPH owed local businesses loads when they went too most unpleasant.

EPH were the contractor involved with the building of the hospital, with a Manx component of the company, Crowe (Crowe EPH). Enron were the body that folded during the power station construction, that was another, global, collapse.

The interest on the unauthorised loans that Proffitt had taken out with Barclays (being sat on the Board of Barclays as well) was unsustainable, it accrued faster than it could be repaid. Treasury therefore settled the loans with Barclays and took the debt in-house and arranged repayment packages that squeezed the taxpayer. Total MUA debt is @ £500M, gas purchasing shenanigans have now added to that.

What needs to be remembered is the thinking and vanity culture leading to why it was deemed to be necessary to have our own generation capacity on this scale anyway, a complete vanity project that was even said to be toying with a waterfall behind the glass frontage at one point.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Non-Believer
Typo & screenshots

[GD4ELI]

4 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

EPH were the contractor involved with the building of the hospital, with a Manx component of the company, Crowe (Crowe EPH). Enron were the body that folded during the power station construction, that was another, global, collapse.

The interest on the unauthorised loans that Proffitt had taken out with Barclays (being sat on the Board of Barclays as well) was unsustainable, it accrued faster than it could be repaid. Treasury therefore settled the loans with Barclays and took the debt in-house and arranged repayment packages that squeezed the taxpayer. Total MUA debt is @ £500k, gas purchasing shenanigans have now added to that.

What needs to be remembered is the thinking and vanity culture leading to why it was deemed to be necessary to have our own generation capacity on this scale anyway, a complete vanity project that was even said to be toying with a waterfall behind the glass frontage at one point.

£500 million you mean?

[2bees]

8 minutes ago, GD4ELI said:

Were the government to do this then it would be challenged in court and they would lose. Also, no bank would even lend money on the island.

Very naïve suggestion.

It worked for Philip in Spain in the 1500’s, I don’t see you coming up with any better ideas. 

[GD4ELI]

6 minutes ago, 2bees said:

It worked for Philip in Spain in the 1500’s, I don’t see you coming up with any better ideas. 

If you check your computer you'll see it's now 2023. As for better ideas - it's currently affordable. You want home rule - you got it!

[2bees]

It wasn’t really what we wanted though, was it?

[GD4ELI]

Just now, 2bees said:

It wasn’t really what we wanted though, was it?

I actually agree with the original proposal, what was wrong was the barely legal way they went about it.

I wouldn't replace the station today, I'd get the interconnectors upgraded and add onshore wind.

I'd also put incentives in place to get solar panels on rooves. I just had this done, VAT free.

[Non-Believer]

12 minutes ago, GD4ELI said:

You want home rule - you got it!

This is precisely what it was all about, the egos and political career ambition visions of the time. Those have now retired with considerable taxpayer funded remuneration and not an ounce of contrition.

It was always going to come to this sadly, the debt repayment burden left the Govt and the taxpayers on a hopeless wicket for dealing with any externally influenced future fluctuations such as we now have.

[CallMeCurious]

8 hours ago, Happier diner said:

So how come they rejected the MUA attempt to raise tariffs 6months ago. The rubber stamp must have gotten lost.

Simple, 6 months ago gas prices were at an all-time high and doing the same with MUA tariffs would have bumped inflation numbers even higher. And no doubt a lot of energy dependent businesses hit by a double whammy would have just quit a month or two before Christmas. That would also have made wage  negotiations with teachers etc. even harder to clamp down on.

Now we get to spring 2023, gas prices go down and pay has been agreed at the lower rate. Now you can bump the prices by 50% and have a lesser impact on overall inflation rate.

This is about the optics, the headlines and a managed decline rather than a crash. How would it have looked if we had a historic increase in electricity prices just as gas hit an all-time high with no plan B (we now have the sunny day windymillers in the pipeline), 3 or 4 businesses failing a week and more strikes in the public sector? And then for it to be revealed it was about paying off old debts as well as higher gas prices.

Instead we spread out the pain and businesses only drop at one a week. Literally spreading the pain which is to an extent unavoidable. Hoping something turns up (5,000 jobs or Elon musks Space Port) to sort out the mess so they don't have to really get a grip on government finances. 

Using a car analogy, it's the difference between slowing down using the brakes and engine or just yanking on the handbrake. We are the passengers and we don't get a say.

Unfourtunately, it seems some in charge aren't willing to slow dwon and some are determined to put their foot on the gas with vanity projects.   

 

 

[CallMeCurious]

39 minutes ago, GD4ELI said:

I actually agree with the original proposal, what was wrong was the barely legal way they went about it.

I wouldn't replace the station today, I'd get the interconnectors upgraded and add onshore wind.

I'd also put incentives in place to get solar panels on rooves. I just had this done, VAT free.

What is the payback period?

[WTF]

12 minutes ago, CallMeCurious said:

What is the payback period?

eternity.

[GD4ELI]

21 minutes ago, CallMeCurious said:

What is the payback period?

Maybe 12 years, but I'm also greatly reducing my carbon footprint which is the most important aspect. Also I'm now almost immune to any crazy price rises.