hissingsid Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 There is always a choice and when some commodities that are used by all, wealthy or poor, are hiked up in price the drip effect is felt. In the case of electricity it will be a game changer for businesses, households, government operations which again are funded by the tax payer. If the Island suffers a recession this increase will be the prime reason for it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallMeCurious Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 4 hours ago, Happier diner said: No. That are not that stupid. They have no choice . They chose to sign up to the nett zero cult without any plan for the transition. Consdiering windymills and sunbeam technology has been in use for decades they are only now getting round to rushing a plan through? They chose to not use the £26m loan to soften the blow until the mighty green energy miracle comes online. Where we are now is the result of lots of previous choices. Just because they've painted themselves into a corner it doesn't absolve them of responsibility. If they aren't responsible for their choices why are they there? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majkul Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 One thing for sure. Those running the island (into the ground), can multitask very well, because it cannot be easy to have your head in the sand, while your snout is in the trough. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 8 hours ago, CallMeCurious said: They chose to sign up to the nett zero cult without any plan for the transition. Consdiering windymills and sunbeam technology has been in use for decades they are only now getting round to rushing a plan through? They chose to not use the £26m loan to soften the blow until the mighty green energy miracle comes online. Where we are now is the result of lots of previous choices. Just because they've painted themselves into a corner it doesn't absolve them of responsibility. If they aren't responsible for their choices why are they there? They are responsible for their choices. I didn't say they were particularly adept. What i said was they were not so stupid that they didn't know that raising electricity prices would cause some businesses to struggle. Saying they were too stupid to realise this kinda gives them an excuse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 The lady on the left in this is the taxpayers, the one on the right is government ! Local people with expertise on various matters have tried to add their knowledge but always been shunned. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philwebs Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 I have just paid my electricity bill, +30% yoy (not adjusting for the toilet tax). I recall a documentary about the state capture and plundering of South Africa by the PM Zuma, the Guptas, and many other politicians who did very well. The Guptas took most of South Africas reserves without consequence. How to Steal a Country https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7tumo6 https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7tuona "The so-called Gupta Leaks not only proved that the journalists had been right in their suspicions, but showed that the situation was much worse than they thought. Since taking office as president, Jacob Zuma had systematically awarded lucrative government contracts to three brothers from India, the Guptas. Thanks to their good friend Zuma, members of the Gupta family were able to use the proceeds of an entire nation for their own gain, acquiring holdings in coal mines, media and IT companies, and even government positions. The plundering of the state had been shamelessly supported by a group of elite international advisors. As criticism from the media grew louder, the British PR firm Bell Pottinger was hired. The journalists were defamed as agents of "white monopoly capital," and the Guptas stylized as victims of a racist press. But after the publication of the Gupta Leaks, the graft stopped. The Zuma clan and the Guptas lost their power." https://www.dw.com/en/how-to-steal-a-country-corruption-in-south-africa/a-58759371 It is only my opinion, nothing more, that the Isle of Man seems to have simiilar problems. The out of control politicians, civil service, and local authorities do not seem to be held to account. Vanity projects fail disastrously with the consequences being paid for by the taxpayer and economy. There do not appear to be any consequences for failure or mismanagement. The players retire with gold plated pensions ,or make off with their ill gotten gains as with the Guptas. The South Africa plundering rhymes with me. I just wonder if any of these local players will ever be held to account, and by whom. It seems to get worse every year. Until such time as systematic failure is not addressed nothing will change. They seem to have everything sewn up. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cissolt Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 The 26 million loan is rather odd. If the facility was there to borrow and repay over 20 years then why not use it? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 17 hours ago, cissolt said: The 26 million loan is rather odd. If the facility was there to borrow and repay over 20 years then why not use it? Or another question. If we've got all these oft-quoted billions in reserves, why doesn't Treasury just write the debt off? It's internal now, external borrowings (Barclays) have been settled long ago. Why are we subjecting domestic consumers, businesses and the whole local economy to all this financial pain, stress, risk and uncertainty when the situation could be resolved at the metaphoric stroke of a pen? After all, Govt reserves is our money and this must surely qualify as a "rainy day"? Unless of course... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Buggane Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 (edited) I wholly agree with your sentiment, why can we not just use our(OUR) reserves to write off these debts once and for all. At least you me and the gmp would see the benefit. They seem to use the reserves to ballance the budget every year now, most likely due to the impossible situation they find themselves in and no prevarication and waffle Alinson / Thomas can dig themselves out of the hole they are in. To many years of kicking the can and not grasping the nettle have led us to this sorry state. And the civil service have to shoulder a lot of the blame as empire building and getting drunk on power seem to have grown in popularity. Then you walk away with an eye watering pension/severance pay the price of electric ain't going to bother you, not to mention absolving you of any fault or blame. About time they brought in forensic accountants and let's see where the money leads, will never happen in my lifetime only when the island is declared bankrupt and big brother across the water has to take charge. It is honestly making me ashamed to be Manx seeing the island slowly sinking under the sheer weight of incompetence shown by our esteem leaders over the years. Shysters one and all out for what they can get may that be money,power or glory. Ha ha only ever cover themselves in shite. Rant over time to get some caffeine. Good morning to you all. Edited March 18, 2023 by Dirty Buggane 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 2 hours ago, Non-Believer said: Or another question. If we've got all these oft-quoted billions in reserves, why doesn't Treasury just write the debt off? It's internal now, external borrowings (Barclays) have been settled long ago. Why are we subjecting domestic consumers, businesses and the whole local economy to all this financial pain, stress, risk and uncertainty when the situation could be resolved at the metaphoric stroke of a pen? After all, Govt reserves is our money and this must surely qualify as a "rainy day"? Unless of course... thats a good one , if they write the debt off they lose the excuse to charge us so much for the electricity that is really paying CS pensions and government bloat and not actually clearing any debt in real terms at all.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxanne Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Non-Believer said: Unless of course... ‘The government can’t continue to shield people from the price of energy.’ I mean, we did, last year but now it’s payback time and for all the shielding we gave you then, we’re now going to make you pay 60% more for energy so we can look as though we are paying off a huge debt. A debt that was down to the ineptitude of government in the first place It’s either that, or, as you have suggested, they are truly shitting themselves. Edited March 18, 2023 by Roxanne To add a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 10 minutes ago, WTF said: thats a good one , if they write the debt off they lose the excuse to charge us so much for the electricity that is really paying CS pensions and government bloat and not actually clearing any debt in real terms at all.. Are you saying someone is committing fraud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 Well, my thoughts were that perhaps these claims of "billions in reserves" might be complete bollocks. If the money existed, surely it would be better to use some of it to strike out this debt, rather than potentially sending the economy into meltdown in the name of huge increases in electricity prices that may be unsustainable for local businesses and individuals alike? And where do they end? If the resources exist, use them to clear liabilities for the sake of everybody. Why would you do otherwise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 2 minutes ago, Happier diner said: Are you saying someone is committing fraud. They didn't run up the major part of a £0.5Bn debt without financial misconduct. Why could this not be different? Something doesn't add up, you don't put the Island economy on the line without there being an issue somewhere. We are not being told the full story by any means. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 19 minutes ago, Happier diner said: Are you saying someone is committing fraud. i don't recall saying that at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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