Fluoride

[Panopticon]

The US Federal Court N. California District's judgment was published 24 September. The judge decided against the US Environmental Protection Agency over water fluoridation:

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/fluoridation-risk-kids-landmark-decision/
 

The official 80-page Judgment (there's also a link in the above page):

 https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/6201332/445/food-water-watch-inc-v-environmental-protection-agency/
 

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.310380/gov.uscourts.cand.310380.445.0.pdf
 

 

Incidentally, regarding sugar substitutes: new research indicates  not just erythritol but now also Xylitol may be problematic, potentially associated with increase blood clotting:

"Xylitol is prothrombotic and associated with cardiovascular risk "(European Heart Journal - June 2024)

https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/article/45/27/2439/7683453?login=false

Stevia? Weston A. Price Foundation seems to think it is assocated with fertility reduction. 

Inulin? Seemingly harmless but not much sweetness factor.

Better to do without. Like water fluoridation.

 

[Lxxx]

Where are we up to with this now? Are they seriously intending to go ahead with it?

[Fred the shred]

I don’t think so it is something they bring up every few years and then pay some so called expert to come over and tell us it is a good idea, they are good at doing that, instead of studying recent reports from reliable sources.    If they ever do I and I am sure a lot of other people will go onto bottled water thus increasing the vast amount of plastic single use bottles.     Parents should up their game and ensure their little darlings clean their teeth properly two minutes am two minutes pm and cut the sweets down why should the whole population suffer because they can’t be bothered.

[Lxxx]

4 hours ago, Fred the shred said:

I don’t think so it is something they bring up every few years and then pay some so called expert to come over and tell us it is a good idea, they are good at doing that, instead of studying recent reports from reliable sources.    If they ever do I and I am sure a lot of other people will go onto bottled water thus increasing the vast amount of plastic single use bottles.     Parents should up their game and ensure their little darlings clean their teeth properly two minutes am two minutes pm and cut the sweets down why should the whole population suffer because they can’t be bothered.

There are barely any NHS dentists left anyway are there, why they so bothered once again? Notwithstanding the fact that drinking fluoride has zero effect on the health of your teeth anyway. 

[Josem]

On 9/30/2024 at 5:07 PM, Fred the shred said:

If they ever do I and I am sure a lot of other people will go onto bottled water thus increasing the vast amount of plastic single use bottles.

Do you think this is what people do when living in nations such as Ireland, the USA and Australia? Is that what you think happens there? 

[Fred the shred]

I am not interested in what other countries do  their natural  water supply is probably a lot different from ours.    The Isle of Man has a really good quality water supply and does not need tampering with.   

[Two-lane]

Fluoridation of drinking water is aimed at people who do not drink water.

[Fred the shred]

I drink a lot of tap water and don’t see the value of bottled stuff it is about time a deposit was charged for plastic bottles then there would not be as many lying around also they could charge a deposit on disposable vapes they are getting to be a real litter problem.   We used to get charged a deposit on glass pop bottles and you never saw them disgarded they were like gold dust a real find when we were kids you could do a lot with 3d in those days.

[Happier diner]

On 9/30/2024 at 9:04 PM, Lxxx said:

Notwithstanding the fact that drinking fluoride has zero effect on the health of your teeth anyway

How do you work that out? 

[Jarndyce]

2 hours ago, Fred the shred said:

We used to get charged a deposit on glass pop bottles and you never saw them disgarded they were like gold dust a real find when we were kids you could do a lot with 3d in them days

I can remember when pants were pants: you wore them for twenty years, then cut them down for pan scrubs…

Edited Saturday at 03:02 PM by Jarndyce

[HeliX]

3 hours ago, Happier diner said:

How do you work that out? 

I don't think the effect is zero, but it's a really ineffective way of getting fluoride into your teeth. And as noted by someone above, the problem isn't people who drink plenty of water anyway, it's people consuming mostly sugary drinks. Fluoridation of water targets exactly the wrong people with a completely non-specific dose. It's stupid.

[Happier diner]

25 minutes ago, HeliX said:

I don't think the effect is zero, but it's a really ineffective way of getting fluoride into your teeth. And as noted by someone above, the problem isn't people who drink plenty of water anyway, it's people consuming mostly sugary drinks. Fluoridation of water targets exactly the wrong people with a completely non-specific dose. It's stupid.

I don't disagree with that. I do disagree that fluoride isn't good for your teeth. That's what @Lxxx said which shows a terrible ignorance.

You can get sufficient fluoride from toothpaste. Putting it in water en mass is madness. It does work though. Areas with fluoridation have very good tooth health even on low decile areas. 

Not for IOM in my view though. 

[HeliX]

2 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

I don't disagree with that. I do disagree that fluoride isn't good for your teeth. That's what @Lxxx said which shows a terrible ignorance.

You can get sufficient fluoride from toothpaste. Putting it in water en mass is madness. It does work though. Areas with fluoridation have very good tooth health even on low decile areas. 

Not for IOM in my view though. 

It was drinking it that Lxxx suggested had no benefit. Which I don't think is strictly accurate, but I think the benefit is very low.

[Chinahand]

The comparison between Northern Ireland and Eire is pretty useful in seeing the effectiveness of fluoridation:

https://www.irelandsdentalmag.ie/fluoridation-the-north-south-divide-comes-into-focus/

In 2002, a ‘north-south’ survey showed a substantial decline from 1984 in dental caries in both fluoridated and non-fluoridated communities in the Republic of Ireland, and in the non-fluoridated population of Northern Ireland. However, the decline was substantially greater in the fluoridated communities.

The report itself:

https://www.lenus.ie/bitstream/handle/10147/119028/?sequence=1

By the age of 15 children have significantly fewer fillings if they live in fluorinated areas than if not:

[Happier diner]

Fluoridated. Fluorinated would be a whole lot more deadly.