Should Ashie keep his MBE for leadership of the department during the Covid-19 pandemic?

[Albert Tatlock]

The moral of the story is...never give anyone a bonus (or an MBE) till the job is proven to be done.

 

[Declan]

37 minutes ago, Josem said:

 

I do not comprehend why anyone thinks that such a Government document, which was allegedly written by a Government worker, about Government matters, to the Government Minister, and which was subsequently taken to a Government space and used for (very public) Government purposes, should be destroyed.

If Government workers have a right to destroy Government documents because some people want to remain anonymous, then that makes a complete mockery of our Government's rules relating to public records.

Further, it would be interesting to learn whether the document was destroyed before or after my Freedom of Information Act request for the letter.

It's more serious than that. It's a letter to the minister of Health, from a member of his department that's about poor morale in the department. A letter the minister took seriously enough to read at a press conference.

Subsequently, the department has received a CQC report found "The culture within the department was of significant concern... lack of support for staff health and wellbeing, relationships were “toxic” and there was a bullying and blame culture." And been the subject of a costly and damning employment tribunal.

What if a close colleague of the letter writer took the Department to a tribunal? Ashy wouldn't be able to produce the letter. And how would they answer the inevitable question about what action they took to address the concerns "er ... the minister read it out at a press conference to make a minor point in a dispute with a contractor ... then destroyed it".

[P.K.]

I recall Ashford reading the letter out and it came across to me that Dr Glover was garning all the kudos and a member of the staff was complaining that as a consequence others trying to work the issues weren't getting a mention.

I found it a bit strange in that if they were all motivated on the best possible patient outcomes why complain about someone whose expertise was an obvious asset to achieving the common goal...?

In his role Ashford should have been taking and managing an overall top-down view.

Fail...

[Roger Mexico]

19 minutes ago, P.K. said:

I recall Ashford reading the letter out and it came across to me that Dr Glover was garning all the kudos and a member of the staff was complaining that as a consequence others trying to work the issues weren't getting a mention.

I found it a bit strange in that if they were all motivated on the best possible patient outcomes why complain about someone whose expertise was an obvious asset to achieving the common goal...?

In his role Ashford should have been taking and managing an overall top-down view.

Fail...

Josem's comment prompted me to listen again to the clip of Ashford reading out the letter (in the item below):

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/ashfords-anonymous-letter-destroyed-after-briefing/

Two things struck me.  The first was the sheer artificiality of the 'set-up': "I just happen to have this letter which I received yesterday".  At the very least it suggested the letter had been received not entirely as a surprise, maybe even requested.  Secondly the letter reads very oddly, more like someone complaining in a pub than a considered letter, with the same point made over and over again without being evidenced.  It's not like the sort of letter you'd expect from an adult to a person in a position of power.  It's more like a sulky child who believes that they should have been given all the sweeties.

[hampsterkahn]

The “letter” issue surfaced at a troubled time.

We were frightened.Well, I was at times.

Doing ludicrous things like hitting saucepans on Thursday evenings became our talisman and we adopted a lot of wishful thinking, really wanting to believe  that the folk behind lecterns who appeared each evening were  really on top of the situation.We wished ourselves into  putting trust in them.

It made an uncertain situation easier to cope with.

The  “ letter” issue was therefore quickly dismissed by many in the same way  as Mr A’ s solemn announcement that someone had sustained  a fatal reaction to a vaccination at the airport.The fact that they didn’t die was obviously great news for everyone, but as I recall ,resulted in little  comment about the minister’s  hasty, incautious and overly authoritative response.

 

Edited May 8, 2023 by hampsterkahn

[Roxanne]

6 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

Josem's comment prompted me to listen again to the clip of Ashford reading out the letter (in the item below):

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/ashfords-anonymous-letter-destroyed-after-briefing/

Two things struck me.  The first was the sheer artificiality of the 'set-up': "I just happen to have this letter which I received yesterday".  At the very least it suggested the letter had been received not entirely as a surprise, maybe even requested.  Secondly the letter reads very oddly, more like someone complaining in a pub than a considered letter, with the same point made over and over again without being evidenced.  It's not like the sort of letter you'd expect from an adult to a person in a position of power.  It's more like a sulky child who believes that they should have been given all the sweeties.

It was a time of such madness that it was hard to keep up and the letter was just one of the long string of madnesses that occurred. Listening back now it seems unbelievable that more wasn't done to question it. 

The artificiality of the set up is so true. I distinctly remember listening to it being read out and my overriding thought was, 'I can't believe you're trying to convince us that this is genuine'. Not one doctor or professional would write a letter like this, This has been written by someone close to you to support your point and to get you  out out of the mire you have created. And yet, it was accepted, as was the shredding of this essential piece of evidence - the very night after it as read out.

Unbelievable - and yet it happened - and was accepted.

 

[Roxanne]

8 hours ago, Josem said:

 

I do not comprehend why anyone thinks that such a Government document, which was allegedly written by a Government worker, about Government matters, to the Government Minister, and which was subsequently taken to a Government space and used for (very public) Government purposes, should be destroyed.

If Government workers have a right to destroy Government documents because some people want to remain anonymous, then that makes a complete mockery of our Government's rules relating to public records.

Further, it would be interesting to learn whether the document was destroyed before or after my Freedom of Information Act request for the letter.

I may not be your greatest fan @Josem, but this is a perfect summary of the situation. 

As far as I remember, Minister Ashford stated that he shredded it on the night after he used it as evidence during the interview. But, as before, so much occurred that it's hard to keep track.

[Roxanne]

On 5/7/2023 at 7:40 PM, The Voice of Reason said:

The same could be said about your unwillingness to take any other view is the same. You seem equally entrenched in your views and won’t countenance any alternative opinion.

You're completely correct. I am entrenched but that is because I have the knowledge and experience to recognise the traits of these individuals.

On 5/7/2023 at 7:40 PM, The Voice of Reason said:

I sometimes find it hard to reconcile my view of you as a calm, measured person with the vitriol you come out with about DA

I think vitriol is a bit strong but yes, I know I can be be somewhat evangelical in my approach and  that it probably turns more people off than it turns on. What drives it is the incredulity that people like this are voted into positions of power, and then go on to abusing that power. They take no accountability when found out and go on to blame others of their failings. I believe we deserve better than this. You cannot see any of this for what it is and I can't make you. 

We just need to agree to disagree from now on - and I shall try to measure my tone more.

[Cassie2]

3 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

You're completely correct. I am entrenched but that is because I have the knowledge and experience to recognise the traits of these individuals.

.What drives it is the incredulity that people like this are voted into positions of power, and then go on to abusing that power. They take no accountability when found out and go on to blame others of their failings. I believe we deserve better than this. 

+1

[Non-Believer]

1 hour ago, Roxanne said:

This has been written by someone close to you to support your point and to get you  out out of the mire you have created. And yet, it was accepted, as was the shredding of this essential piece of evidence - the very night after it as read out.

Unbelievable - and yet it happened - and was accepted.

Maybe even written by somebody who has posted on these boards in the past....particularly in these matters....?

[Shake me up Judy]

10 hours ago, Albert Tatlock said:

The moral of the story is...never give anyone a bonus (or an MBE) till the job is proven to be done.

 

I wonder who put him up for it ? You normally get these things after years of public service. Ashie got his while we were still in the middle of the pandemic. I reckon it was Howard Quayle when we were boasting about the Island being free of Covid. Ashie's MBE became part of the flannel and the backslapping. We know how that turned out.

[Jarndyce]

9 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said:

I wonder who put him up for it ? You normally get these things after years of public service. Ashie got his while we were still in the middle of the pandemic. I reckon it was Howard Quayle

Playground pact - “I’ll propose you if you propose me”

[Jarndyce]

1 hour ago, Non-Believer said:

Maybe even written by somebody who has posted on these boards in the past....particularly in these matters....?

At the time, I assumed that he’d written it himself, shredded quickly to remove evidence of crossing-out and crayon marks…but you’re probably right.   I can see Prof Sir Lord Ashford hunched over the keyboard, while someone else whispers the words in his ear…

[Roxanne]

10 hours ago, Declan said:

the minister read it out at a press conference to make a minor point in a dispute with a contractor ... then destroyed it".

Made all the more relevant when, in the days following, every single one of Dr Glover’s colleagues and associates  came out in support of her. 

And evidence to the contrary was no longer available for examination. 

[Jarndyce]

9 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

the letter reads very oddly, more like someone complaining in a pub than a considered letter, with the same point made over and over again without being evidenced.  It's not like the sort of letter you'd expect from an adult to a person in a position of power.

It’s certainly not the style of letter that would be written by a Pathology lab scientist on behalf of colleagues.   These people are concise, measured and choose words with care and precision.

I recall Dr Glover commenting that Path lab staff had contacted her, to assure her that the letter was nothing to do with them.   Anecdotal, of course, and not possible to evidence - but added to all the other circumstantial bits and pieces, it seems plausible enough to me.   I would imagine that they would want to distance themselves from such clumsy political grandstanding - and such poor written english.