Josem exposes QE2 drag queen photos

[Whiskey]

1 hour ago, HeliX said:

Books where the antagonists are men who wear dresses. She's got brain rot. It's almost sad.

EDIT: Oh and that book she wrote that's almost entirely comprised of fabricated Tweets. She's lost the plot.

How to show you’ve never read it, etc…

[John Wright]

Most of her arguments are about women’s safe spaces. In particular  single gender conveniences, public, restaurant etc.

First, every accessible loo I’ve ever found and used was agender.

Second, most modern public buildings are updating with no urinals, and all cubicles being off a corridor with no door. Every cubicle is agender, has a lockable door, and has not just the WC but the sink. Plus the man and woman stylised sign on each door.

it stops all the fuss. It solves the issue. It’s sane and sensible.

best example is in the Wallace Collection which I visited only last weekend whilst in London. And the accessible cubicles are the best I’ve used. Just beating the Science Museum and British Museum.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

1 hour ago, HeliX said:

 

Just to clarify, you're suggesting that deplatforming bigots is what makes people hate trans folk?

Not at all as I suspect you know.
“Deplatforming”  ( another awful word that has arisen from all this) those who hold a different view does make the deplatformers look intolerant.

Freedom of speech should only be denied in the most extreme of circumstances and from what I have seen and read of JKR on You Tube debates and printed material, she comes nowhere near that threshold.

I believe that a person with a penis is not a woman, either by sex or gender. Does that make me a bigot?

[HeliX]

2 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Not at all as I suspect you know.
“Deplatforming”  ( another awful word that has arisen from all this) those who hold a different view does make the deplatformers look intolerant.

Freedom of speech should only be denied in the most extreme of circumstances and from what I have seen and read of JKR on You Tube debates and printed material, she comes nowhere near that threshold.

I believe that a person with a penis is not a woman, either by sex or gender. Does that make me a bigot?

Is there a single person who's had their freedom of speech removed for any of this?

Deplatforming has been around for 50+ years. It's not a word that has arisen from "all this".

Your beliefs over what someone else's gender is are irrelevant. It's like having a belief over someone else's sexuality. Unless they've told you how would you know? Why would your opinion matter compared to their truth?

[The Voice of Reason]

7 minutes ago, HeliX said:

Your beliefs over what someone else's gender is are irrelevant. 

As are yours, but you’ve been banging on about  them for page after page on here!

[HeliX]

Just now, The Voice of Reason said:

As are yours, but you’ve been banging on about  them for page after page on here!

I don't have beliefs about someone else's gender, other than what they tell me.

[The Voice of Reason]

6 minutes ago, HeliX said:

I don't have beliefs about someone else's gender, other than what they tell me.

And if someone told you the earth was flat, would you believe that?

[John Wright]

10 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Not at all as I suspect you know.
“Deplatforming”  ( another awful word that has arisen from all this) those who hold a different view does make the deplatformers look intolerant.

Freedom of speech should only be denied in the most extreme of circumstances and from what I have seen and read of JKR on You Tube debates and printed material, she comes nowhere near that threshold.

I believe that a person with a penis is not a woman, either by sex or gender. Does that make me a bigot?

 

6 minutes ago, HeliX said:

Is there a single person who's had their freedom of speech removed for any of this?

Deplatforming has been around for 50+ years. It's not a word that has arisen from "all this".

Your beliefs over what someone else's gender is are irrelevant. It's like having a belief over someone else's sexuality. Unless they've told you how would you know? Why would your opinion matter compared to their truth?

Deplatforming is an ugly word. You’re right, VoR. But the concept isn’t ugly, and as Helix says it’s been around for years.

Every public space has always had the right to choose who they allow to speak. 

As, in particular, supposedly, mainstream politicians, mainly of the right, but of the left as well, have wanted to choose places to disseminate fairly hateful and controversial views that would stir up trouble and cause confrontation, and were refused, they went on the offensive. 

They could have always ( and often did ) go down the road and espoused their creed elsewhere. They were never deplatformed. 

They used the excuse that, e.g. universities were publicly funded and must host everyone. Ignoring the cost in safety and security their presence would cause.

In my day at Uni it was the likes of Keith Joseph and the extreme monetarists who were politely refuse a platform and asked to speak elsewhere. They now seem moderate after Thatcherism, de regulation and the austerity and extremism of the ERG, Braverman, BoJo, Rees-Mogg, Francois and dozens of others. 

Saying that within the law you can say what you want doesn’t mean you can choose where to say it, whether in a bricks and mortar hall, the written media, TV or electronic forms of communication. Imagine we gave the extreme left and freedom fighters and the SNP the right to fill the pages of the Telegraph or Express or mail, or time on GB News.

[The Voice of Reason]

36 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Most of her arguments are about women’s safe spaces. In particular  single gender conveniences, public, restaurant etc.

First, every accessible loo I’ve ever found and used was agender.

Second, most modern public buildings are updating with no urinals, and all cubicles being off a corridor with no door. Every cubicle is agender, has a lockable door, and has not just the WC but the sink. Plus the man and woman stylised sign on each door.

it stops all the fuss. It solves the issue. It’s sane and sensible.

best example is in the Wallace Collection which I visited only last weekend whilst in London. And the accessible cubicles are the best I’ve used. Just beating the Science Museum and British Museum.

 

They look nice. 
I must confess being sometimes of limited mobility ( although not a blue badge holder)I sometimes usethe accessible toilet facilities in public places.

There seems to be a fashion for using ultra low toilets for non accessible units such as which I’ve never seen since my infant school days
 

 

[John Wright]

14 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

And if someone told you the earth was flat, would you believe that?

That’s completely different. Why are you so worked up by the question of whether someone who presents and passes as, and believes  that they are, a woman, but was born with a penis, is a man or a woman. Accept what you are told. Unless you’re suggesting knicker patrol and inspection ( now that really would be bizarre ). You have no right to ask, no need or right to know.

[HeliX]

6 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

And if someone told you the earth was flat, would you believe that?

The shape of the planet is a matter of fact and evidence.

Gender is perosnal and not verifiable other than by identity.

If someone told you they were gay would you say they weren't?

[The Voice of Reason]

Just now, John Wright said:

.Accept what you are told. 

That might be for you.

But sometimes I feel the need to question.

[HeliX]

Just now, The Voice of Reason said:

That might be for you.

But sometimes I feel the need to question.

Why would you feel the need to question? Unless you're about to interact with a person's genitals, how is it any of your business what they might be?

[Harry Lamb]

1 minute ago, The Voice of Reason said:

That might be for you.

But sometimes I feel the need to question.

It's not a 'need': it's a 'want'.

[Sheldon]

2 minutes ago, HeliX said:

If someone told you they were gay would you say they weren't?

Rachel Dolezal told me she was black, and like a fool I believed her. Even after she changed her name to Nkechi Amare Diallo, and discovered some Native American heritage, I had my doubts.