The Voice of Reason Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, genericUserName said: I think we just need to all agree that being a woman can only be a biological definition. Well you and I ( and the majority of people) will agree that. But as we have seen and heard some will not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genericUserName Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 1 minute ago, HeliX said: But for what purpose and why? Like how are you then going to apply that definition in ways that relate to the real world? I couldn't really care less what something is defined as up until the point where that definition is used to grant or restrict specific freedoms. You wrote above about a third gender. Let's apply women's rights to women. Men's rights to men. And third gender rights to people who are third gender. In most, but not all, cases these will be the same rights. Of course. Mostly that will be about spaces. Specifically - let's not have men who identify as women occupying women's spaces. Whether physical or conceptual. Women won their rights hard. Men are the problem here, for the most part. It's men who identify as women arguing with other men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 Just now, genericUserName said: You wrote above about a third gender. Let's apply women's rights to women. Men's rights to men. And third gender rights to people who are third gender. In most, but not all, cases these will be the same rights. Of course. Mostly that will be about spaces. Specifically - let's not have men who identify as women occupying women's spaces. Whether physical or conceptual. Women won their rights hard. Men are the problem here, for the most part. It's men who identify as women arguing with other men. It's not sensible to put trans women in men's spaces though. What's the solution? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genericUserName Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 Just now, HeliX said: It's not sensible to put trans women in men's spaces though. What's the solution? Equally it is clearly not sensible to put men who identify as women in women's spaces. You talked about a third gender. That's your answer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 Just now, genericUserName said: Equally it is clearly not sensible to put men who identify as women in women's spaces. You talked about a third gender. That's your answer. How long will it take to retrofit every bathroom with a third option? Is it sensible to have only 1 option for both trans men and trans women? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genericUserName Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, HeliX said: How long will it take to retrofit every bathroom with a third option? Is it sensible to have only 1 option for both trans men and trans women? This is about much more than bathrooms. And for the most part I was thinking more about conceptual spaces. i.e. how we identify people. But yes - men who identify (or sometimes identify) as women should be using the gents. That's clear. And we don't need 4 bathrooms. There is no reason why there could not be an 'other' option. Though it seems frankly daft. Given that this is probably a passing trend. Edited August 12, 2023 by genericUserName 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 7 minutes ago, HeliX said: It's not sensible to put trans women in men's spaces though. What's the solution? Use the facilities for the particular sex you were born as. If you see yourself as a trans person that’s fine ( and there are a lot of people, myself included, who wish you well in that) But it’s up to you to adapt to societal norms, not the rest of society to bend over backwards to accommodate you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, genericUserName said: This is about much more than bathrooms. And for the most part I was thinking more about conceptual spaces. i.e. how we identify people. But yes - men who identify (or sometimes identify) as women should be using the gents. That's clear. What conceptual spaces? Should we be identifying people at all? I'm not sure it is clear. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/transgender-teens-restricted-bathroom-access-sexual-assault/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: Use the facilities for the particular sex you were born as. If you see yourself as a trans person that’s fine ( and there are a lot of people, myself included, who wish you well in that) But it’s up to you to adapt to societal norms, not the rest of society to bend over backwards to accommodate you. I'm not sure it's the societal norm for a female-presenting person to use the men's bathroom. And I'm not sure letting people just get on with pissing in peace is "bending over backwards". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 Just now, HeliX said: And I'm not sure letting people just get on with pissing in peace is "bending over backwards". Apparently it’s a kink or fetish. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, HeliX said: I'm not sure it's the societal norm for a female-presenting person to use the men's bathroom. And I'm not sure letting people just get on with pissing in peace is "bending over backwards". Why do you have to use all these peculiar phrases like “ female presenting person” If you want to piss in peace there are cubicles in toilets that both sexes use. What’s the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 6 minutes ago, John Wright said: Apparently it’s a kink or fetish. Yes very good. Phnarff Pharnff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 4 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: Why do you have to use all these peculiar phrases like “ female presenting person” If you want to piss in peace there are cubicles in toilets that both sexes use. What’s the problem? What's peculiar about it? It accurately categorises the people I'm talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 Just now, HeliX said: What's peculiar about it? It accurately categorises the people I'm talking about. Female presenting person? Sounds like my sister introducing me to her new flat mate or something. Thats what is peculiar about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 1 minute ago, The Voice of Reason said: Female presenting person? Sounds like my sister introducing me to her new flat mate or something. Thats what is peculiar about it. Well, the accuracy is more important than how you feel about it unfortunately. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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