Josem exposes QE2 drag queen photos

[HeliX]

39 minutes ago, Josem said:

The first "if" there is doing an awful lot of work

No, it's well evidenced.

https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/

[John Wright]

18 minutes ago, Sheldon said:

Sorry, what?

John's first "if" above is indeed doing some heavy lifting. In these increasingly straitened times the opportunity cost of healthcare provision is under the microscope more than ever. (I seem to recall @wrighty touching on QALY during Covid.) In this instance though I don't think there's sufficient data yet to make a quantitative case one way or the other.

Apart from medical professionals I’m probably more involved in mental health services delivery oversight, at all stages,  than anyone in the Island. I’m widely read because of my professional involvement.

Its indisputable, for physical, as well as mental, well being that preventative measures are better, and less expensive, and work better, than letting intervention become necessary.

And preventative measures can be medical and social or a mix. As well as time dependant/relevant.

So, for mental health, there is increasing recognition that many conditions are the result of isolation, poverty, unemployment, class, discrimination, marginalisation. That correlates with precursors to physical ill health.

For many things we wait until something is acute or in crisis, then we throw drugs at it.

Psychotherapies may work at that late stage better than chemical coshing, or earlier and be cheaper.

But, long term, steering people away from the path that leads to either is the cheapest and best solution. The problem is dealing with the existing acute caseloads and trying to expand the preventative societal solutions at the same time. We end up with a double financial cost. So you struggle on with limited budget and treat the acute cases, or you leave them to care in the community without proper support.

[Sheldon]

2 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Apart from medical professionals I’m probably more involved in mental health services delivery at all stages than anyone in the Island. I’m widely read because of my professional involvement.

Its indisputable, for physical, as well as mental, well being that preventative measures are better, and less expensive, and work better, than letting intervention become necessary.

And preventative measures can be medical and social or a mix. As well as time dependant/relevant.

So, for mental health, there is increasing recognition that many conditions are the result of isolation, poverty, unemployment, class, discrimination, marginalisation. That correlates with precursors to to physical ill health.

For many things we wait until something is acute or in crisis, then we throw drugs at it.

Psychotherapies May work at that stage, or earlier and be cheaper.

But long term steering people away from the path that leads to either is the cheapest and best solution. The problem is dealing with the existing acute caseloads and trying to expand the preventative solutions at the same time. We end up with a double financial cost.

Thanks John, certainly don't disagree with any of that, but on the QALY front I was referring purely to the gender reassignment surgery mentioned in the original post. (And I didn't mean to imply that purely quantitative assessments are necessarily the best/only way of reaching decisions, just that this is increasingly how it's going, for better or for worse.)

[jackwhite]

32 minutes ago, Josem said:

Well, staff in our schools are teaching students that the laws should be changed, so that people can simply determine their own gender. This creates big risks to women across our community, who are the most likely people to be the victim of gender-based violence. If you're going to put such ideas into our schools, at the very least, they should be presented in a fair and balanced manner.

These foreign culture wars should not be imported into our schools under the guise of woke political correctness. This woke political correctness is the idea that reality and truth should be changed to fit the dominant political narrative. Woke political correctness is a fundamentally bad way of looking at the world: people's ideas should change to fit the truth. The truth should not be changed to fit people's ideas - and we should not employ teachers who try to subvert truth in their teaching of children. School teachers should teach truth, not political narratives and political indoctrination.

You're really boring but actually quite dangerous.

Quite often you seem to think you're the spokesperson for the everyone on the Isle of Man. I see you've been promoted to that for the educational system at large and also the rights of women, bizarrely none of which you are actually involved with.

None of what you actually say is correct or properly evidenced. You are quite clearly trying a 'Trump'. Appeal to the lowest common denominator and spread nonsense to attach yourself to enough people to get you voted into some sort of position of power. God help us all if it ever comes to pass. It would be funny for a period of about 3 months, until such time as you realise you'd make little difference. Even those with good intentions can't seem to.

At least to your credit, you aren't blocking people on here, your normal MO on socials.

[The Voice of Reason]

40 minutes ago, John Wright said:

You’re avoiding.

Is CS biologically male or female?. What is the gender of CS? Are they the same, or different? And how do you justify your responses, whatever they may be?

How about first you answer my question which you appear to be avoiding.

Page 23 about 12 posts in. What have I( unintentionally, apparently) said that would if said to the black or gay community be a criminal offence and give great offence to those communities? Because that is one hell of an accusation that you need to justify.

Edited August 15, 2023 by The Voice of Reason

[Albert Tatlock]

5 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Apart from medical professionals I’m probably more involved in mental health services delivery oversight, at all stages,  than anyone in the Island.

No surprise there...after all, you were one of the longest serving moderators on MF 

 

 

[HeliX]

1 minute ago, The Voice of Reason said:

How about first you answer my question which you appear to be avoiding.

Page 23 about 12 posts in. What have I( unintentionally, apparently) said that would if said to the black or gay community would be a criminal offence and give great offence to those communities? Because that is one hell of an accusation that you need to justify.

IANAL, but

page 18:
"Er no, whatever sexuality you think you would like to be doesn’t mean it is what you are. "

"She has raised other concerns about the gay agenda, like many others, but maybe because of her fame she has become the hate figure of gay activists. " (Even using the phrase "gay agenda" feels pretty discriminatory, doesn't it?)

"I think there are people who pursue the gay agenda, whilst maybe not believing it,just to prove their liberal credentials. "

"I say someone’s sexuality is the same as their heteronormative sexuality at birth."

page 20:

"If you see yourself as a gay person that’s fine ( and there are a lot of people, myself included, who wish you well in that)

But it’s up to you to adapt to societal norms, not the rest of society to bend over backwards to accommodate you."

page 23:

"I also think we need to be clearer about what defines hate and “ anti gay rhetoric “

I am one who believes everyone has the right to act, dress and behave ( without hurting others ) as they wish, including gay people.

I don’t however, together with most, believe that sex and sexuality are different things."

 

Just doesn't feel very good does it.

[John Wright]

19 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

How about first you answer my question which you appear to be avoiding.

Page 23 about 12 posts in. What have I( unintentionally, apparently) said that would if said to the black or gay community be a criminal offence and give great offence to those communities? Because that is one hell of an accusation that you need to justify.

Just read your own posts. Do the substitutions.

I’m trying to make this concrete for you, with one example.

Then we can move, step by step, extension by extension to demonstrate the inherent falsity of your position

[The Voice of Reason]

5 minutes ago, HeliX said:

IANAL, but

page 18:
"Er no, whatever sexuality you think you would like to be doesn’t mean it is what you are. "

"She has raised other concerns about the gay agenda, like many others, but maybe because of her fame she has become the hate figure of gay activists. " (Even using the phrase "gay agenda" feels pretty discriminatory, doesn't it?)

"I think there are people who pursue the gay agenda, whilst maybe not believing it,just to prove their liberal credentials. "

"I say someone’s sexuality is the same as their heteronormative sexuality at birth."

page 20:

"If you see yourself as a gay person that’s fine ( and there are a lot of people, myself included, who wish you well in that)

But it’s up to you to adapt to societal norms, not the rest of society to bend over backwards to accommodate you."

page 23:

"I also think we need to be clearer about what defines hate and “ anti gay rhetoric “

I am one who believes everyone has the right to act, dress and behave ( without hurting others ) as they wish, including gay people.

I don’t however, together with most, believe that sex and sexuality are different things."

 

Just doesn't feel very good does it.

I wish I could do that thing where you put your ripostes underneath each para but I can’t .
But even a brief look shows you are misquoting me. For example your penultimate paragraph says “ including gay people”. If you go back to my original posting I said “ trans people”.

Nothing about the black community in the above.

[The Voice of Reason]

3 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Just read your own posts. Do the substitutions.

I’m trying to make this concrete for you, with one Ema ample.

The mother of all cop outs.

[HeliX]

1 minute ago, The Voice of Reason said:

I wish I could do that thing where you put your ripostes underneath each para but I can’t .
But even a brief look shows you are misquoting me. For example your penultimate paragraph says “ including gay people”. If you go back to my original posting I said “ trans people”.

Nothing about the black community in the above.

Fuck my sides, the question you asked was

"What have I( unintentionally, apparently) said that would if said to the black or gay community be a criminal offence and give great offence to those communities?"

So I substituted your comments to show what they would look like targeted at the gay community.

[John Wright]

1 minute ago, The Voice of Reason said:

The mother of all cop outs.

It’s sometimes hard, even giving you the benefit of all doubt going, to work out if you are

thick

deliberately obtuse

trolling

transphobic/homophobic/racist 

or just an “Im all right jack” person with no empathy or consideration for others.

The one thing is you aren’t is reasonable. 

[WTF]

these days sexuality seems to be defined by what offences you are trying to get off with in court.

[The Voice of Reason]

3 minutes ago, HeliX said:

Fuck my sides, the question you asked was

"What have I( unintentionally, apparently) said that would if said to the black or gay community be a criminal offence and give great offence to those communities?"

So I substituted your comments to show what they would look like targeted at the gay community.

Oh right. I get it, you are putting words in my mouth.

Very good

[WTF]

Just now, John Wright said:

 

The one thing is you aren’t is reasonable. 

'the voice of unreasonable' doesn't have the same ring to it.