John Wright Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 1 minute ago, Ringy Rose said: The windage isn’t very different, given the Seatruck ferries are forty feet longer and have a similar height profile. The Seatruck ferries are big pieces of kit. It’s 50%. Huge difference. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blade Runner Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 5 minutes ago, Ringy Rose said: The windage isn’t very different, given the Seatruck ferries are forty feet longer and have a similar height profile. The Seatruck ferries are big pieces of kit. That doesn’t change whether they’re capable of berthing in Heysham and, having berthed in Heysham, whether they’re capable of staying put. “My mate’s mate says…” That’s me convinced. Best scuttle it now. No offence intended if you are but, are you blind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 from steam packet to WhenI blade runner If you have read through the comment section on recent posts about Manxman, we’re sure you will have come across a rumour or two about the new flagship. Whether that be about the vessel’s seaworthiness, it having a curfew, or it not being allowed out in more than a stiff breeze…We hope to dispel some of the most common Manxman myths. Manxman Myth #1 – Manxman won't be able to sail in windy conditions... Fact: Manxman is designed specifically for Irish Sea weather conditions. Following discussions with Heysham Pilots, we have imposed a temporary wind restriction on movements of the vessel to/from the port whilst the crew build up their real world experience in a variety of conditions. The temporary restrictions are very common with new vessels and will be gradually eased as our Masters gain experience. Please see our ‘to sail or not sail’ blog for additional details on how and why we sometimes decide not to put to sea. Passenger comfort and safety is always the company’s primary consideration and this was factored in to the bespoke design of Manxman, from the intuitive stabilising systems when the ship rolls in rough conditions, to the layout and added comfort of the passenger lounges. When conditions do deteriorate in the Irish Sea, Manxman will still be able to sail in strong winds, up to the same levels as her predecessor, Ben-my-Chree, but provide passengers with additional comfort levels. Manxman Myth #2 – Manxman can’t sail at night… Fact: Manxman is fully capable of sailing at any time of day. Indeed, the vessel successfully sailed from South Korea to the Isle of Man, steaming day and night. The vessel is currently completing daytime only sailings in a scheduled working up phase. After a month of daytime sailings Manxman will complete a month of overnight sailings, before taking over the full twice daily Douglas to Heysham return service. This allows us to keep Ben-my-Chree in service ready at a moment’s notice if for any reason Manxman is unable to make a sailing. More myth busting to follow tomorrow... 3 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringy Rose Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 20 minutes ago, John Wright said: It’s 50%. Huge difference. 50% larger windage than, say, the Seatruck Performance- which has no issues in Heysham? You’ll have to show your working out on that one. Yes, it’s bigger than the Ben, but that doesn’t mean it’s not suitable. The Ben is bigger than the Lady of Mann, etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 13 minutes ago, Banker said: from steam packet to WhenI blade runner If you have read through the comment section on recent posts about Manxman, we’re sure you will have come across a rumour or two about the new flagship. Whether that be about the vessel’s seaworthiness, it having a curfew, or it not being allowed out in more than a stiff breeze…We hope to dispel some of the most common Manxman myths. Manxman Myth #1 – Manxman won't be able to sail in windy conditions... Fact: Manxman is designed specifically for Irish Sea weather conditions. Following discussions with Heysham Pilots, we have imposed a temporary wind restriction on movements of the vessel to/from the port whilst the crew build up their real world experience in a variety of conditions. The temporary restrictions are very common with new vessels and will be gradually eased as our Masters gain experience. Please see our ‘to sail or not sail’ blog for additional details on how and why we sometimes decide not to put to sea. Passenger comfort and safety is always the company’s primary consideration and this was factored in to the bespoke design of Manxman, from the intuitive stabilising systems when the ship rolls in rough conditions, to the layout and added comfort of the passenger lounges. When conditions do deteriorate in the Irish Sea, Manxman will still be able to sail in strong winds, up to the same levels as her predecessor, Ben-my-Chree, but provide passengers with additional comfort levels. Manxman Myth #2 – Manxman can’t sail at night… Fact: Manxman is fully capable of sailing at any time of day. Indeed, the vessel successfully sailed from South Korea to the Isle of Man, steaming day and night. The vessel is currently completing daytime only sailings in a scheduled working up phase. After a month of daytime sailings Manxman will complete a month of overnight sailings, before taking over the full twice daily Douglas to Heysham return service. This allows us to keep Ben-my-Chree in service ready at a moment’s notice if for any reason Manxman is unable to make a sailing. More myth busting to follow tomorrow... It is however very carefully worded. They’re very quiet about manoeuvrability in harbour. I’ve had the exact same messages with people I know in the officers union as reported by Kipper99 and Blade Runner. A union letter outlining the need for a ballot for industrial action has just gone out. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD4ELI Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 4 minutes ago, Ringy Rose said: 50% larger windage than, say, the Seatruck Performance- which has no issues in Heysham? You’ll have to show your working out on that one. Yes, it’s bigger than the Ben, but that doesn’t mean it’s not suitable. The Ben is bigger than the Lady of Mann, etc etc. There is far, far more to do with windage than just the surface area. This coming winter we'll know much more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 12 minutes ago, Ringy Rose said: 50% larger windage than, say, the Seatruck Performance- which has no issues in Heysham? You’ll have to show your working out on that one. Yes, it’s bigger than the Ben, but that doesn’t mean it’s not suitable. The Ben is bigger than the Lady of Mann, etc etc. Three solid sided decks fewer. Second level enclosed freight deck has huge cut outs, both sides. Wind goes through. Little windage. Third freight deck is open. Same effect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 33 minutes ago, Ringy Rose said: similar height profile They really don’t! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 20 minutes ago, John Wright said: They really don’t! That's a fair observation. It can't really be debated. The smoothness is also a factor though to some extent. Containers and spaces add to the windage by being a resistance to the air flow. But, yes, the side of the Manxman is definitely bigger and I would expect it to be more effected. However, at 25knots ( or whatever the limit is) I still reckon it's not a factor for any vessel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 Just now, Happier diner said: However, at 25knots Perhaps you’re misunderstanding the limit. That’s the upper limit. You’re right, the lower the wind speed the less the windage effect. And, of course, windage effect isn’t a simple area relationship, it’s gross tonnage, displacement, that changes if light or loaded, power of thrusters, any aerodynamic design ( the cut through ), shelter from the harbour walls, and so one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskey Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 Well it seemed fine the other day when I was on it. I managed to get on and off it so I’m assuming it berthed ok! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringy Rose Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 42 minutes ago, John Wright said: A union letter outlining the need for a ballot for industrial action has just gone out. Call me cynical but no doubt a nice pay rise will miraculously assist the officers in manoeuvring the vessel in harbour. A bigger wallet will be a nice counterbalance to the wind or something. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringy Rose Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 11 minutes ago, Whiskey said: I managed to get on and off it so I’m assuming it berthed ok! Already doing better than the Ben! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 42 minutes ago, John Wright said: Perhaps you’re misunderstanding the limit. That’s the upper limit. You’re right, the lower the wind speed the less the windage effect. And, of course, windage effect isn’t a simple area relationship, it’s gross tonnage, displacement, that changes if light or loaded, power of thrusters, any aerodynamic design ( the cut through ), shelter from the harbour walls, and so one I am not misunderstanding the limit. Yes, I agree there are many factors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manxman1234 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Banker said: from steam packet to WhenI blade runner If you have read through the comment section on recent posts about Manxman, we’re sure you will have come across a rumour or two about the new flagship. Whether that be about the vessel’s seaworthiness, it having a curfew, or it not being allowed out in more than a stiff breeze…We hope to dispel some of the most common Manxman myths. Manxman Myth #1 – Manxman won't be able to sail in windy conditions... Fact: Manxman is designed specifically for Irish Sea weather conditions. Following discussions with Heysham Pilots, we have imposed a temporary wind restriction on movements of the vessel to/from the port whilst the crew build up their real world experience in a variety of conditions. The temporary restrictions are very common with new vessels and will be gradually eased as our Masters gain experience. Please see our ‘to sail or not sail’ blog for additional details on how and why we sometimes decide not to put to sea. Passenger comfort and safety is always the company’s primary consideration and this was factored in to the bespoke design of Manxman, from the intuitive stabilising systems when the ship rolls in rough conditions, to the layout and added comfort of the passenger lounges. When conditions do deteriorate in the Irish Sea, Manxman will still be able to sail in strong winds, up to the same levels as her predecessor, Ben-my-Chree, but provide passengers with additional comfort levels. Manxman Myth #2 – Manxman can’t sail at night… Fact: Manxman is fully capable of sailing at any time of day. Indeed, the vessel successfully sailed from South Korea to the Isle of Man, steaming day and night. The vessel is currently completing daytime only sailings in a scheduled working up phase. After a month of daytime sailings Manxman will complete a month of overnight sailings, before taking over the full twice daily Douglas to Heysham return service. This allows us to keep Ben-my-Chree in service ready at a moment’s notice if for any reason Manxman is unable to make a sailing. More myth busting to follow tomorrow... That will upset a few key board maritime Facebook experts 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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