Joney and the Bishop

[woolley]

I remember our friend Barrie Stevens banging on about this very issue, and saying that if we did away with the Bishop in Tynwald it would have dire consequences for our status as a Crown Dependency. This would lead to all manner of other problems as a result of our diminished status in no longer being a diocese. No idea how true any of that was. It was dear Barrie after all!

The Bishop can really have no idea about the governance of the Island. He has no relevant experience and by the nature of his day job he is somewhat removed from day to day reality. How does such a background make him fit to sit in Tynwald?

[woolley]

3 hours ago, ADELE said:

The post over here is only considered as a nice one to get prior to retiring anyway a so of winding down jobby.  

I though that was the LG! Didn't the previous Bish go from here to St. Pauls? Hardly prep for winding down.

ETA: Just seen that Andy made the same point.

Edited June 22, 2023 by woolley

[Harry Lamb]

This whole affair exemplifies the extraordinary importance Tynwald members place on themselves, with their ridiculous titles (Minister, please), as if their were leaders of a major democracy instead of a glorified parish council. Perhaps if they thought a little less of themselves and more about those they're paid to represent they could address problems that matter to the majority of islanders, such as affordable housing and reliable transport. If you ask the average person on the island at the moment what their major concerns are I suspect the cost of living, lack of housing for young people, lack of support for families, shortage of dentists, doctors, nurses and teachers would feature rather higher than the place of the Bishop on LegCo - but look what this bunch of witless cretins are wasting their time on. With this feeble-minded bunch in charge, I suspect we need someone to put in a good word for us with the Almighty.

[woolley]

1 hour ago, Malik said:

Only since you ask, Elisha is sometimes known as a picture of Christ. He was a prophet with a double portion of the Spirit. That account, for me, is also a forward picture of the last part of Revelation 6:8, when the Wrath of God and the Lamb gets underway soon.

Define soon?

[woolley]

33 minutes ago, La_Dolce_Vita said:

If you can't provide evidence that your God exists then you can't really expect anyone to pay your beliefs any notice. Same goes for all Christians and their delusions.  Though Revelations is the most bonkers part of the bible. A loopy addition to something already irrational. The only thing interesting or worthy of attention about it is how it ended up in bible. 

Why pick on Christians? It's ALL religion.

Edited June 22, 2023 by woolley

[Mr Helmut Fromage]

1 hour ago, Malik said:

Only since you ask, Elisha is sometimes known as a picture of Christ. He was a prophet with a double portion of the Spirit. That account, for me, is also a forward picture of the last part of Revelation 6:8, when the Wrath of God and the Lamb gets underway soon.

So it’s ok to kill 40 kids with a bear - your boss sounds like a magnificent bloke 😂

[La_Dolce_Vita]

14 minutes ago, woolley said:

Why pick on Christians? It's ALL religion.

I only mention Christianity because it's most relevant to the discussion but you're right. And what you say does bring up the most important point here, if we have people in society who make decisions that are in any way influenced by irrational beliefs then that's a problem.  It's more of a problem if that happens with decisions made on behalf of others.  I do think with many of the questions raised in the past in debate by the bishop that they Bishop's views have been supported by research and education on the topics that has been completely missing from other members of LegCo. Nevertheless, religious beliefs are guaranteed to have influence with the role of the bishop and that's not good.

[ADELE]

No I am sure the Bishop gets nothing from the Government he is paid by the church. As for Bishops retiring whether they retired on health grounds or not they were of retirement age stop splitting hairs.

 

 

 

[forestboy]

41 minutes ago, Harry Lamb said:

This whole affair exemplifies the extraordinary importance Tynwald members place on themselves, with their ridiculous titles (Minister, please), as if their were leaders of a major democracy instead of a glorified parish council. Perhaps if they thought a little less of themselves and more about those they're paid to represent they could address problems that matter to the majority of islanders, such as affordable housing and reliable transport. If you ask the average person on the island at the moment what their major concerns are I suspect the cost of living, lack of housing for young people, lack of support for families, shortage of dentists, doctors, nurses and teachers would feature rather higher than the place of the Bishop on LegCo - but look what this bunch of witless cretins are wasting their time on. With this feeble-minded bunch in charge, I suspect we need someone to put in a good word for us with the Almighty.

Can we dispense of Honorable title please. 

[Mr Helmut Fromage]

4 minutes ago, ADELE said:

No I am sure the Bishop gets nothing from the Government he is paid by the church. As for Bishops retiring whether they retired on health grounds or not they were of retirement age stop splitting hairs.

 

 

 

There are many accounts of Bishops splitting the one without hairs………….

 

[Andy Onchan]

56 minutes ago, Kopek said:

.... but he is also paid as a member of Legco and that may be all or part of wage?

I'm sure I have heard in the past that the money is part of the reason the church retain the Diocese and have used it as a 'threat' to removing the bish?

I think he's entitled to remuneration as a member of legco but I'm pretty sure it's not taken up. Although I recall seeing somewhere that it's paid over to local charities but I may be wrong or misremembering.

[Andy Onchan]

12 minutes ago, ADELE said:

No I am sure the Bishop gets nothing from the Government he is paid by the church. As for Bishops retiring whether they retired on health grounds or not they were of retirement age stop splitting hairs.

 

 

 

No. You said the position was for those looking for an easy life prior to retirement. That is not the case.

[Kopek]

In theory there is nothing wrong with an outside voice 'adding' to the debate in Tynwald?

Many religious leaders, Rowan Williams, Jon Sentamu, Mona Siddiqui and Jonathon Sacs have expressed their views, particularly on social issues which has drawn extra, non political, attention to that issue.

The problem we have on the Island is that we don't know who the next and next Bishop will be, they may well be a politically astute  debater to be thorn in the side of our MHKs or they may be a bumbling buffoon to be easily dismissed by even 'our MHKs'!!!

It is the lack of control we have that makes the Bish a dubious addition to our political debate?

We'd be better off with Ken Livingston in Legco????????

[La_Dolce_Vita]

26 minutes ago, Kopek said:

In theory there is nothing wrong with an outside voice 'adding' to the debate in Tynwald?

Many religious leaders, Rowan Williams, Jon Sentamu, Mona Siddiqui and Jonathon Sacs have expressed their views, particularly on social issues which has drawn extra, non political, attention to that issue.

They haven't done so at every parliamentary debate.  Aren't they understood to be guests to express a view on something that is fundamentally related to a motion? That, as you know, is different from a permanent position to debate and vote on everything.

[Roger Mexico]

4 hours ago, Andy Onchan said:

The only position available after a bishop will be Archbishop but to suggest that Sodor & Man is a place where you wind down and take it easy before retiring is nonsense.  Noel Jones (d2009) & Robert Paterson both retired on health grounds and so will Bishop Peter. Graeme Knowles was appointed as Dean to St Pauls, London.

Actually if you look at the list of Bishops, before the First World War, Bishops of Sodor and Man were regularly promoted to larger Sees ('translated' is the jargon).  But since then it seems to have been used as a final position for someone who wasn't expected to go any further.  Not a easy gig as such, but not one you would move on from.  The only exception in the last hundred years is Knowles and he was effectively ordered to come and sort out St Pauls which had problems.