Joney and the Bishop

[Roxanne]

. 

19 minutes ago, Malik said:

So it’s because a handful of newly elected MHK’s don’t like the Christian ethos in Tynwald as this is inconvenient to them? The majority of the public didn’t vote for anyone judging by the last election stats. But the majority have also let the government know they are Christians at the last census. I’ve read nothing said at the recent two public meetings deciding the new Bishop about him not having a seat in government, if anything quite the opposite was said.

Perhaps because the only countries in the world who have a religious presence in government are the IoM, the U.K. and Iran.  The U.K. is now debating this. It may be that the MHK was pre-empting a situation where we were, for once, ahead of the U.K. in policy and catching up with the rest of the world in their view there’s no place for religion in a modern government. 

[Declan]

17 hours ago, Malik said:

Come on, their two MHK’s look well inside their thirties. But are they aware The Manx Labour Party had its roots in the Chartist movement on the Isle of Man, the union movement, various reforming organisations such as the Manx Reform League, and a culture of debating societies and self-education societies focused around the Island's various churches. 

Methodist not CofE. 

[kevster]

25 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

Perhaps because the only countries in the world who have a religious presence in government are the IoM, the U.K. and Iran

Sort of - they are the only ones with reserved places for religious leaders. There are other parliaments where relgious parties are represented and form governments

[Roger Mexico]

It's worth looking at exactly what was discussed and proposed in June's Tynwald.  Faragher put forward a motion stating:

That legislation should be introduced to remove the Bishop from the Legislative Council, and that this legislation should take effect before any successor to the present Bishop is appointed.

there was also an amendment from Maltby that would have changed this to:

That Tynwald is of the opinion that appointed Members of the Legislative Council should not be able to vote, and that legislation should be introduced to give effect to this principle.

(Watterson then put forward a technical amendment to this, so that in that case the Bishop wouldn't contribute to LegCo's quorum)

Now Maltby's amendment actually passed in the Keys, but failed in LegCo and so failed overall

In the Keys – Ayes 14, Noes 10

For: Dr Allinson, Mr Ashford, Mrs Barber, Mrs Caine, Mrs Corlett, Mr Crookall, Ms Faragher, Dr Haywood, Mr Hooper, Mrs Maltby, Mr Peters, Mrs Poole-Wilson, Mr Speaker, Mr Thomas

Against: Mr Callister, Mr Cannan, Mrs Christian, Ms Edge, Mr Glover, Mr Johnston, Ms Lord-Brennan, Mr Moorhouse, Mr Smith, Mr Wannenburgh.

In the Council – Ayes 0, Noes 8

Against: Miss August-Hanson, Mr Craine, Mr Greenhill, Mr Henderson, Mrs Kelsey, Mrs Kinnish, The Lord Bishop, Mr Mercer, Mrs Sharpe.

This meant Faragher's motion was voted on unamended:

In the Keys – Ayes 8, Noes 16

For: Dr Allinson, Mrs Barber, Mrs Caine, Ms Faragher, Dr Haywood, Mr Hooper, Mrs Maltby, Mr Peters.

Against: Mr Ashford, Mr Callister, Mr Cannan, Mrs Christian, Mrs Corlett, Mr Crookall, Ms Edge, Mr Glover, Mr Johnston, Ms Lord-Brennan, Mr Moorhouse, Mrs Poole-Wilson, Mr Smith, Mr Speaker, Mr Thomas, Mr Wannenburgh.

In the Council – Ayes 0, Noes 8

Against: Miss August-Hanson, Mr Craine, Mr Greenhill, Mr Henderson, Mrs Kelsey, Mrs Kinnish, The Lord Bishop, Mr Mercer, Mrs Sharpe.

So there's actually support in the Keys for removing the Bishop's vote, though not his position.  But it isn't enough to get a motion jointly through Tynwald - nor of course to get legislation through LegCo.  Which is one core problem with the Island's constitution - LegCo have a veto on their own rights and position.

[Two-lane]

16 pages is a bit much for me to read through, so this has probably already been questioned - but - MLCs are voted in by MHKs. If the MHKs want the bishop to be in the Legislative Council, all they need to do is vote in his favour.

[Malik]

1 hour ago, Moghrey Mie said:

Politics and religion should be kept apart.

1 hour ago, Roxanne said:

there’s no place for religion in a modern government. 

I am sorry to say you are completely clueless and likely to be walking around in a drunken haze when the Tribulation gets under way.

[Malik]

1 hour ago, Declan said:

Methodist not CofE. 

That quote was taken from Wikipedia. It said various churches so I assume all the denominations that were around a century ago. I don’t think there’s ever been any sectarian violence on the island, they seem to get on together peacefully as the whole church should.

[2112]

2 hours ago, Moghrey Mie said:

I suppose some MHKs think Tynwald and the House of Keys should be secular. That's why they affirm rather than swear on the bible.

Politics and religion should be kept apart.

There is also tradition and customs involved. Unfortunately to some extent religion does play a part. Politicos swear allegiance to the Monarch, heirs and successors etc, in turn the Monarch is Head of the Church of England. 

[Roxanne]

53 minutes ago, Malik said:

I am sorry to say you are completely clueless and likely to be walking around in a drunken haze when the Tribulation gets under way.

I do hope so. 

[Jarndyce]

1 hour ago, Malik said:

I am sorry to say you are completely clueless and likely to be walking around in a drunken haze when the Tribulation gets under way.

Not very compassionate for an apparently religious person…

…although the “drunken haze” trope looks strangely familiar…

[Gladys]

20 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

I do hope so. 

I've stocked the wine rack already. 

[Roxanne]

Just now, Gladys said:

I've stocked the wine rack already. 

Make sure you cut your hair too. Only the ones with long hair get taken up in the rapture. I’ve already cut mine in preparation. I don’t drink alcohol as a rule but, if it’s the end of the world then I might just make an exception.
 

Party ‘round your’s it is then! 

[Two-lane]

Americans swear allegiance to the flag (I think). Presumably in all other countries, people make some kind of commitment.

Probably monarchies involve allegiance to royalty. I wonder how many involve a religious declaration.

[quilp]

1 hour ago, Malik said:

I don’t think there’s ever been any sectarian violence on the island, they seem to get on together peacefully as the whole church should.

In 1972 (I was 12) I applied for a summer job at a local music shop selling records and instruments. Full of beans at my resourcefulness, I bounded home to tell the old man. When I told him where the job was, much to my chagrin, he just laughed and said, "you'll never get a job there." I asked why and he said, "because you're a Catholic son, and he (the owner) hates Catholics." I didn’t get the job. In past times on this Island there existed a quiet animosity between the faiths in some circles so there was a degree of sectarianism. Did a Catholic bishop ever hold the position in Tynwald? Interesting to know...

[kevster]

1 hour ago, Malik said:

get on together peacefully as the whole church should.

As should all religions - especially the three abrahamic ones that share the same god, prophets and so much history.