Banning traffic from towns

[Broadcasterman]

It seems that there is a lot of effort currently being applied to put up barriers and pedestrianize places like North Quay and other areas of central Douglas as evidenced by the plans published by the DOI a few weeks ago to turn several roads around Ballakermeen into cycling only or blocked off home zones. Yet at the same time there’s more and more news coverage around businesses going bust because they aren’t getting the trade anymore as local councils have made it too difficult to park anywhere near

https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/23548529.florence-pughs-father-loses-bar-blames-ltns-stress/

https://www.mylondon.news/news/west-london-news/cut-off-london-neighbourhood-cameras-26577418

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/widespread-parking-restrictions-seaside-town-29382381

https://www.yellowad.co.uk/brentwood-parking-ban-a-death-sentence-for-trade/

Surely there should be a lot more public engagement on this sort of thing? Not least because the people paying business rates are also the same people funding a lot of these local town hall nutters who want the streets purged of everything in order to satisfy their end of the world fears. North Quay was dead this lunchtime on one of the hottest days of the year. You have to wonder what actual function it serves if nobody can drive down it but also nobody wants to walk or sit out in it either. Yes in the evenings on a hot night it might get busy for a few hours but for most of the day/week it seems absolutely dismal yet they still seem to be pushing more restrictions.

Edited May 26, 2023 by Broadcasterman

[HeliX]

13 minutes ago, Broadcasterman said:

North Quay was dead this lunchtime

No it wasn't.

[hissingsid]

I think the free space is a good idea people need to use their legs a bit more.

[Markus Boyd]

To what extent can a general decline in retail be attributed to pedestrianisation efforts of the town centres? I would be interested to read supporting data from credible research rather than tabloid ones that do tend to sensationalise reality. 

Edited May 26, 2023 by Markus Boyd
error

[english zloty]

20 minutes ago, Markus Boyd said:

To what extent can a general decline in retail be attributed to pedestrianisation efforts of the town centres? I would be interested to read supporting data from credible research rather than tabloid ones that do tend to sensationalise reality. 

The original town centre first model was developed as a direct response to the Trafford Centre. The idea was that because folk were doing their shopping there Altrincham should become a destination experience. Altricham subsequently won all sorts of awards and was extensively copied. Predominantly it is still heavily pedestrianised and specialised in fooderies. Importantly it is connected to public transport in the form of the metrolink. Meaning folk don't drive

[Dr Beeching]

[x-in-man]

The DoI and DCC have gone a long way in doing this as it is.

[Shake me up Judy]

It'll get worse yet. Much worse. We're governed by UK trained and UK mindset Civil Servants, here to bring the natives into the 21st century, and we're paying them a shitload of money. The top boys and girls at the DOI will have their MBA's in UK Urban Transport Systems and Town Planning and we'll get a copy and paste version of whatever's the policy and thinking in the UK. That's how we've ended up with the shambles that is Douglas Promenade.    

[Markus Boyd]

26 minutes ago, english zloty said:

The original town centre first model was developed as a direct response to the Trafford Centre. The idea was that because folk were doing their shopping there Altrincham should become a destination experience. Altricham subsequently won all sorts of awards and was extensively copied. Predominantly it is still heavily pedestrianised and specialised in fooderies. Importantly it is connected to public transport in the form of the metrolink. Meaning folk don't drive

Interesting, thanks!

So, it is important that pedestrianization is accompanied by public transport initiatives that compliment and facilitate public access to the space. 

Edited May 26, 2023 by Markus Boyd

[english zloty]

Yes. Leave the car at home means less parking required however Metrolink is every 10 minutes. 
 

most places now combine cycle lanes, hire scooters and pleasant walking don’t they? We seem to have a plan for the destination but not the getting there

[Roger Mexico]

1 hour ago, Shake me up Judy said:

It'll get worse yet. Much worse. We're governed by UK trained and UK mindset Civil Servants, here to bring the natives into the 21st century, and we're paying them a shitload of money. The top boys and girls at the DOI will have their MBA's in UK Urban Transport Systems and Town Planning and we'll get a copy and paste version of whatever's the policy and thinking in the UK. That's how we've ended up with the shambles that is Douglas Promenade.    

If you think about it, that's not true.  The top boys and girls at the DoI have/had no relevant qualifications at all - Black was originally an EHO and Curphey a career civil servant moving from Department to Department; Robinson had no experience in roadmaking or transport planning before he was made Director of Highways; Longworth had run a coach company.  And you see the result of this lack of expertise in the Prom with no real objectives in what they were doing, no real analysis of what the project was for and contractors employed because they were the ones they had always been used.

All the stuff about active travel and the like was using whatever they thought the latest fashionable buzzwords were to justify whatever whims they they felt like imposing, whether it was relevant or not and clearly without even bothering to start to understand how concepts such as shared space work and where they are and aren't suitable.  And what they delivered has no connection to any of it and actually looks worse than what was there before.  There's no design or planning involved, just bodging.  If there were people with relevant qualifications involved they were ignored - mainly because they would have said "Stop doing that".

But, as some of us have been pointing out all along, it was a success in the only way that matters in Manx government.  A lot of money was spent and everyone got to feel important.

[Whiskey]

Ballakermeen isn’t town though. It’s residential. They are two different arguments. 

[WTF]

there's nothing in douglas to go for anyway so why ban traffic?

[Amadeus]

I voted for the closure of north quay and am on record as saying that it should be permanently pedestrianised. This is why: 

 

[Shake me up Judy]

That's just a load of people standing in the road. Explain how that is any sort of argument. You should've been here when we had real crowds all over Douglas half the year round.