b4mbi Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 2 minutes ago, HeliX said: The expectation worldwide is for 3D seismic surveys to be done prior to drilling. If they don't do them, and then the drilling causes problems, how much do you think the IOM Govt (i.e. the IOM Taxpayer) will be liable for? The 2D surveys are from decades ago, no? It doesn't matter when they were from. Do you understand the point that 2D or 3D surveys cannot predict or determine flow rates (effectively the pressure under which the gas is trapped between non-porous layers of rock)? this can only be done by drilling. Risk is inherent in any drilling operation, and this is what regulations are intended to mitigate. The choice of where to drill based on survey data is an operational matter for the exploration company, they are taking the capital risk, and the regulations will provide that they must be adequately insured to cover any issues that may arise, hence IOM Govt won't be liable for anything. 10,000's of gas wells have been drilled globally in 2023... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 1 hour ago, Happier diner said: Yes. Stupidity. Ah yes, of course, how could I have been so silly? Every entity that deals with the DOI, from local club bodies to international organisations, that experiences delays and knock-backs from the department is suffering from stupidity. Despite the DOI during its 14 year existence repeatedly displaying unequalled incompetence and lack of control beyond any par in the previous governance of the Island and being found by external examination and described as unfit for purpose by both Beaman's and the Island's own Chief Minister to the degree that it is undergoing existential review. But applicants are stupid. Of course they are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 Just now, Non-Believer said: Every entity that deals with the DOI, from local club bodies to international organisations, that experiences delays and knock-backs from the department is suffering from stupidity. No. Most seem to manage fine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 4 minutes ago, b4mbi said: It doesn't matter when they were from. Do you understand the point that 2D or 3D surveys cannot predict or determine flow rates (effectively the pressure under which the gas is trapped between non-porous layers of rock)? this can only be done by drilling. Risk is inherent in any drilling operation, and this is what regulations are intended to mitigate. The choice of where to drill based on survey data is an operational matter for the exploration company, they are taking the capital risk, and the regulations will provide that they must be adequately insured to cover any issues that may arise, hence IOM Govt won't be liable for anything. 10,000's of gas wells have been drilled globally in 2023... There seems to be the assumption that if they drill in the wrong place, there will be some sort of catastrophic explosion. The only way that would happen is if they hit the gas (which they know where it is and are supposed to be doing) but something goes very wrong with the equipment, that has been specifically been designed to stop this happening. If they drill in the wrong place and there is nothing there, nothing happens. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 Just now, Non-Believer said: But applicants are stupid. Of course they are. Only a small number. Most applicants seem to grasp simple instructions just fine. The key thing being, you have to complete all the requirements of the application. Something that the rally organiser actual states, in a press release, that they didn't do. Make your own mind up if that makes then stupid or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 14 minutes ago, b4mbi said: 10,000's of gas wells have been drilled globally in 2023 Under licence and within the regulations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 14 minutes ago, b4mbi said: It doesn't matter when they were from. Do you understand the point that 2D or 3D surveys cannot predict or determine flow rates (effectively the pressure under which the gas is trapped between non-porous layers of rock)? this can only be done by drilling. Risk is inherent in any drilling operation, and this is what regulations are intended to mitigate. The choice of where to drill based on survey data is an operational matter for the exploration company, they are taking the capital risk, and the regulations will provide that they must be adequately insured to cover any issues that may arise, hence IOM Govt won't be liable for anything. 10,000's of gas wells have been drilled globally in 2023... It matters when they're from if the tech has moved on significantly. Why don't Crogga just do the 3D surveys if there's potentially billions in revenue down there? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 18 minutes ago, HeliX said: It matters when they're from if the tech has moved on significantly. Why don't Crogga just do the 3D surveys if there's potentially billions in revenue down there? True, but it will cost a lot extra. I've done work on with mines trying to secure financing, obviously they have similarly large outlays at outset and they often have trouble securing the initial funds. More so nowadays too and a lot of them try all sorts of shenanigans to raise those funds or limit the initial outlay expense. It could of course be dry too. The less money they've had to raise will make it easier for everyone if it does turn out to be a dud. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b4mbi Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 20 minutes ago, HeliX said: It matters when they're from if the tech has moved on significantly. Why don't Crogga just do the 3D surveys if there's potentially billions in revenue down there? the geology hasn't changed!! Let's not pretend here, it's a cost issue. Likely to be in excess of £10m to do a survey that isn't immediately necessary and still doesn't prove if the gas flows - that's the crucial point to making the project economic. Also let's not kid ourselves about what this opportunity is, the Govt knew it was issuing the license to a start up exploration company, with local management and local investors as their preferred bidder of only 2 that went for the license. So what if it's a shortcut to "standard" practise, doesn't mean drilling the well is any less safe or any less regulated. The climate obligations have the potential to bankrupt the Island , whilst making no discernible difference to the actual climate. I will bet my children that the current targets and aims will be rolled back as the realisation dawns that they are unrealistic, unachievable and unaffordable. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mann O Mann Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 49 minutes ago, Happier diner said: No. Most seem to manage fine. What planet do you live on ? Do you work for the DOI ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 12 minutes ago, Mann O Mann said: What planet do you live on ? Do you work for the DOI ? Earth. No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mann O Mann Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 18 minutes ago, b4mbi said: the geology hasn't changed!! Let's not pretend here, it's a cost issue. Likely to be in excess of £10m to do a survey that isn't immediately necessary and still doesn't prove if the gas flows - that's the crucial point to making the project economic. Also let's not kid ourselves about what this opportunity is, the Govt knew it was issuing the license to a start up exploration company, with local management and local investors as their preferred bidder of only 2 that went for the license. So what if it's a shortcut to "standard" practise, doesn't mean drilling the well is any less safe or any less regulated. The climate obligations have the potential to bankrupt the Island , whilst making no discernible difference to the actual climate. I will bet my children that the current targets and aims will be rolled back as the realisation dawns that they are unrealistic, unachievable and unaffordable. Fully agree. Get it drilled to see what is there . 2D is actually acceptable for an appraisal well for all those experts stating otherwise but depends on data they have which is why they have requested the variation know doubt as they have sufficient information for the appraisal well. 3 D will come later if the appraisal well is successful . The international operator Crogga have appointed would not agree to drill otherwise as they have to follow the NSTA rules and regs . The IOM should adopt these and waste money creating their own regs for a “one off “ drill. If the pressure is there for the gas to flow commercially then the IOM will benefit , roads , hospitals , schools , build reserves , national wealth fund . And the money could also be used to invest in renewables. I believe in wind turbines also as part of the energy mix . very boring and basically naive to suggest it’s has to be renewable or gas , it’s both . know doubt if the DOI do agree to the variation in the licence the same “ ultras “ will find other reasons to complain about why the IOM should not benefit economically from its gas reserves . Utter stupidity. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 16 minutes ago, Mann O Mann said: Fully agree. Get it drilled to see what is there . 2D is actually acceptable for an appraisal well for all those experts stating otherwise but depends on data they have which is why they have requested the variation know doubt as they have sufficient information for the appraisal well. 3 D will come later if the appraisal well is successful . The international operator Crogga have appointed would not agree to drill otherwise as they have to follow the NSTA rules and regs . The IOM should adopt these and waste money creating their own regs for a “one off “ drill. If the pressure is there for the gas to flow commercially then the IOM will benefit , roads , hospitals , schools , build reserves , national wealth fund . And the money could also be used to invest in renewables. I believe in wind turbines also as part of the energy mix . very boring and basically naive to suggest it’s has to be renewable or gas , it’s both . know doubt if the DOI do agree to the variation in the licence the same “ ultras “ will find other reasons to complain about why the IOM should not benefit economically from its gas reserves . Utter stupidity. Didn't Chris Thomas get sacked because he was 'holding it up'? He went. Still nothing happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikimoto Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 35 minutes ago, Mann O Mann said: I believe in wind turbines also as part of the energy mix . And I believe the children are our future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Buggane Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 I don't think a certain news reader believes that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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