Crogga

[Chris Robertshaw]

8 hours ago, Kopek said:

If Esso, Exxon Shell or such were to back Crogga in their endeavour, WE would be much happier to back the  the project, currently it looks like a De Lorien, Airships venture????

Good question - going back some years the Isle of Man Government were encouraging the big majors to take up the Manx gas field but were unable to find one that was willing to do so ( the interest of the majors understandably being much more towards bigger fields where there were greater economies of scale). In the absence of interest from the majors the Isle of Man Government then encouraged a local start up to take up the challenge of realising the considerable value of the gas field and thus Crogga Ltd was formed.

BP was the last major to have an involvement in the field but discontinued their engagement, along with a considerable list of other smaller fields around the world, in order to pursue the significant large field opportunities opening up following the fall of the USSR. Dr Richard Hubbard was BP's chief world geologist at that time and was responsible for this rationalisation process. It is his deep knowledge and understanding of the Crogga gas field along with his Isle of Man connections that encouraged him to wish to help realise the value of the field for the people of the Isle of Man and of course the company itself.

In the light of this (and removing Crogga Ltd from the equation completely for the moment) I would ask you to consider whether or not the Isle of Man is willing to give up the opportunity to realise such a significant boost to the Island's income, well being and asset values. This given the very considerable financial challenges it now faces and the potential impact of this on us all.

As stated Crogga Ltd wishes to employ only the most professional operators under the control of international standard regulations in order to establish the value of the field for the Isle of Man. The financial risk of the appraisal well being with the company's investors - not the Manx taxpayer.

 

 

 

[Chris Robertshaw]

14 hours ago, Gladys said:

Thanks Chris. 

So what is causing DOI to drag their heels?  Lack of expertise, will or gumption?  I do hope it is not green concerns, when just about everywhere is accepting the importance of transitional arrangements and waking up to the fact that no where can suddenly adopt renewables without huge social and economic impact. 

Another good question - As I am not a director of Crogga it would not be my place to detail at this time how dreadfully I consider the Company is being treated by the DOI and therefore, by extension, the government as a whole. What I would however say is that if this mistreatment ultimately results in Crogga Ltd., as appointed licensee, being unable to establish whether or not a commercially viable flow rate is possible through the planned appraisal well, then I would have no intention of going into the night quietly. The Members of Tynwald have very recently all been circulated with a significant amount of information about the progress Crogga Ltd is trying to make in its efforts to realise the value of the asset. I say to them now - it will not be acceptable to say at a point of failure (that being Crogga Ltd having to remove itself from a position made intentionally impossible) that they were unaware how the potential loss of a multi billion pound asset actually came about during their watch.

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, Chris Robertshaw said:

Another good question - As I am not a director of Crogga it would not be my place to detail at this time how dreadfully I consider the Company is being treated by the DOI and therefore, by extension, the government as a whole. What I would however say is that if this mistreatment ultimately results in Crogga Ltd., as appointed licensee, being unable to establish whether or not a commercially viable flow rate is possible through the planned appraisal well, then I would have no intention of going into the night quietly. The Members of Tynwald have very recently all been circulated with a significant amount of information about the progress Crogga Ltd is trying to make in its efforts to realise the value of the asset. I say to them now - it will not be acceptable to say at a point of failure (that being Crogga Ltd having to remove itself from a position made intentionally impossible) that they were unaware how the potential loss of a multi billion pound asset actually came about during their watch.

Chris

I think everyone here welcomes your contribution and openness of your view. There is quite a lot of people confused and frustrated by the lack of progress (including myself). There are though some of us on here who are more than a little sceptical about the suitability of Crogga and, speaking for myself, wondering (or coming to the conclusion that) if the DOI/IOMG are actually right to be cautious considering,

1. Why no other outfits are interested

2. Why do we need to do a whip round to raise money for them

3. Why there are no external investors that are recognising this potential and coming in the money to do it. You say its too small for the likes of BP. Fair enough but there are plenty of other oil companies and prospectors for which it would be of the right size.

To me it just smacks of another venture that could go badly wrong. A gamble with public money in a way. Seems a bit arse about face.

Just my view.

[b4mbi]

37 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Chris

I think everyone here welcomes your contribution and openness of your view. There is quite a lot of people confused and frustrated by the lack of progress (including myself). There are though some of us on here who are more than a little sceptical about the suitability of Crogga and, speaking for myself, wondering (or coming to the conclusion that) if the DOI/IOMG are actually right to be cautious considering,

1. Why no other outfits are interested They don't have the licence. Only 2 companies actually tendered for it back in 2017 I think, and IOMG awarded to locally based start up, Crogga.

2. Why do we need to do a whip round to raise money for them - wholly usual way for companies to raise capital - issuing shares!

3. Why there are no external investors that are recognising this potential and coming in the money to do it. You say its too small for the likes of BP. Fair enough but there are plenty of other oil companies and prospectors for which it would be of the right size. External investors will only commit funds when they know that the well operators have established regulations in place that the well can be drilled under. Why would you commit these significant funds, when there is still a regulatory environment risk in that permission to drill the well has not been granted (because there are no relevant regulations currently in place) ? 

To me it just smacks of another venture that could go badly wrong. A gamble with public money in a way. NO PUBLIC MONEY IS INVOLVED, how many times does that need repeating?! There is of course a cost to putting regulations in place, Crogga have even offered to meet these costs. Seems a bit arse about face.

Just my uninformed view.

 

[The Phantom]

1 hour ago, Happier diner said:

Chris

I think everyone here welcomes your contribution and openness of your view. There is quite a lot of people confused and frustrated by the lack of progress (including myself). There are though some of us on here who are more than a little sceptical about the suitability of Crogga and, speaking for myself, wondering (or coming to the conclusion that) if the DOI/IOMG are actually right to be cautious considering,

1. Why no other outfits are interested

2. Why do we need to do a whip round to raise money for them

3. Why there are no external investors that are recognising this potential and coming in the money to do it. You say its too small for the likes of BP. Fair enough but there are plenty of other oil companies and prospectors for which it would be of the right size.

To me it just smacks of another venture that could go badly wrong. A gamble with public money in a way. Seems a bit arse about face.

Just my view.

1.  Too small and they can see the almighty incompetence from the people that are supposed to give them a licence.  Why would they want to work with the circus when they can work with Govts that know what they are doing?

2.  We aren't.  They haven't asked for any govt funding.  Private investors are welcome.

3.  There are.  You are not privy to the list of investors.

[Utah 01]

18 hours ago, Gladys said:

So what is causing DOI to drag their heels?  Lack of expertise, will or gumption?

Gladys, I'm surprised that you even asked - and you answered it. What do you expect from a parish council with delusions of grandeur?

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, b4mbi said:

. Why no other outfits are interested They don't have the licence. Only 2 companies actually tendered for it back in 2017 I think, and IOMG awarded to locally based start up, Crogga.

That's the worry

Did Crogga actually pay something

FTR - I am asking the questions so that I can be informed

[Chris Robertshaw]

2 hours ago, b4mbi said:

 

There is not much more I can add to your answers (thank you for your intervention) but I would just make an additional point about the issuing of some shares locally. Of course the major part of the funding would come from large investors but I do know the Crogga board have been anxious to reserve some shares for the those on the Isle of Man who wish to be part of the project. I understand It was felt that if the appraisal well proves to be successful there would be criticism of the company if such an offer had not been made. The critics reasonable argument in such a scenario would be - this is an asset belonging to the Isle of Man so why were we excluded from the opportunity to invest?

What I fear most is that if the DOI and Government as a whole does not get the international standard regulations in place and continues to prevaricate over the important need to put the appraisal well before the 3D seismic tests (the energy market investors require that this must happen - it is the correct sequence and I am aware that the DOI's own advisors recognise this fact) - then the project will enter an unrecoverable scenario with the opportunity lost to the island to know if it has this valuable asset or not. In my opinion this would be a most serious and unforgivable dereliction of duty on the part of this administration at a time when the finances are under such strain.

[Happier diner]

2 hours ago, Chris Robertshaw said:

There is not much more I can add to your answers (thank you for your intervention) but I would just make an additional point about the issuing of some shares locally. Of course the major part of the funding would come from large investors but I do know the Crogga board have been anxious to reserve some shares for the those on the Isle of Man who wish to be part of the project. I understand It was felt that if the appraisal well proves to be successful there would be criticism of the company if such an offer had not been made. The critics reasonable argument in such a scenario would be - this is an asset belonging to the Isle of Man so why were we excluded from the opportunity to invest?

What I fear most is that if the DOI and Government as a whole does not get the international standard regulations in place and continues to prevaricate over the important need to put the appraisal well before the 3D seismic tests (the energy market investors require that this must happen - it is the correct sequence and I am aware that the DOI's own advisors recognise this fact) - then the project will enter an unrecoverable scenario with the opportunity lost to the island to know if it has this valuable asset or not. In my opinion this would be a most serious and unforgivable dereliction of duty on the part of this administration at a time when the finances are under such strain.

You being an expert in the field?

[Gladys]

40 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

You being an expert in the field?

Perhaps more information and experience than you? 

[Harry Lamb]

4 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Perhaps more information and experience than you? 

Perhaps, but not a high bar.

[Gladys]

9 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Perhaps more information and experience than you? 

Sorry, HD, that was rude.  As long as there is no IOMG money going into this, and there are the necessary bonds and insurances in place, then it really needs to go ahead. 

As I said above, I just hope the laggardly response by IOMG is not from some commitment to net zero at all costs. 

[Happier diner]

35 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Perhaps more information and experience than you? 

Or perhaps a similarity low experience. Being serious though Gladys, something is not adding up. Yes sure, the DOI/iomg might be accused of being bit crap, but why would they intentionally be holding it up. I admit I am speculating on what that reason might be.

However there must be a reason. No one is really telling us what it is. Chris Thomas was allegedly fired for the lack of progress, but there has been none since. Robertshaw has given us some insights. But for me, saying it again, something is not adding up and it can't all be the DOI.  

[Happier diner]

27 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Sorry, HD, that was rude.  As long as there is no IOMG money going into this, and there are the necessary bonds and insurances in place, then it really needs to go ahead. 

As I said above, I just hope the laggardly response by IOMG is not from some commitment to net zero at all costs. 

Maybe. 🤔

[Weliveinhope]

10 hours ago, Happier diner said:

Or perhaps a similarity low experience. Being serious though Gladys, something is not adding up. Yes sure, the DOI/iomg might be accused of being bit crap, but why would they intentionally be holding it up. I admit I am speculating on what that reason might be.

However there must be a reason. No one is really telling us what it is. Chris Thomas was allegedly fired for the lack of progress, but there has been none since. Robertshaw has given us some insights. But for me, saying it again, something is not adding up and it can't all be the DOI.  

i tend to agree something doesnt add up - but if it was from the Crogga side, history tells us that our marvellous government would be out there dishing the dirt and absolving themselves form all and any responsibilty.