Going metric-50 years later

[John Wright]

23 minutes ago, Two-lane said:

It seems that there is variation between countries, if not within countries. In the south of Germany, a large beer is 1 litre and a small beer is 0.5 litre. In Frankfurt, a large beer is 0.4 litre and a small beer is either 0.25 or 0.3-ish litre.

 

Because, even although they use the metric system, and have done for 2 centuries, there’s still the ability to serve in quantities other than 1 litre, 500 or 250 ml.

Whats important in this day and age of on line and remote shopping, and in shop, is to have a consistent, sane and sensible system of price per weight/volume comparison.

The metric system is best suited for that.

[Two-lane]

5 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said:

although we'd probably be a good few years from finishing the necessary calculations to launch the satellites for it to work if it weren't for metric units.

https://www.simscale.com/blog/nasa-mars-climate-orbiter-metric/

[A fool and his money.....]

1 minute ago, Two-lane said:

https://www.simscale.com/blog/nasa-mars-climate-orbiter-metric/

QED.

[Blade Runner]

Unless the Mainland goes metric for road signs I don't see the island doing it on its own

Having said that, last time I was over-  a couple of weeks ago - the state of the road signs looked like most needed replacing so it may be the time to do it?

The Minister to answer.......................

Come on @Chris Thomas Please tell us all why you are flogging off vehicles that parked at the airport quite legally (When they left the car) 

And why is the airport short of AV GAS?

And how much over £120million the shed in Liverpool will eventually cost and while on that subject.....

How much did it cost to build a huge football stadium a few hundred yards away from the IOMSPCo Terminal?

Your best guess @Chris Thomas, as to the reasons,  for the relatively small cost difference between a shed with a linkspan, in comparison to a 60,000 person football stadium?

Answers on the back of a Postcard addressed to

• HaveBeenRippedOffSt
• By100millionPoundRoad,
• ShaftedSideways,
• LiverpoolDock.

Will suffice or a full point by point rebuttal if that is better for you?

 

[wrighty]

1 hour ago, A fool and his money..... said:

Why do base units need to be meaningful? How many people plough by hand these days? It's completely meaningless.

If you asked anyone in the street what any imperial unit corresponds to, aside from guessing based on the name, almost nobody would be able to tell you.

A metre I think is something like the wavelength of argon on the moon or something (I've no idea)  equally obscure. That's completely missing the point though. The point is that in terms of length, it's the only unit you'll ever need - true you can use others which are equally as versatile as imperial units but they're described from a metre using standard prefixes and converted with nothing more complicated than multiplying or dividing by factors of ten.

It's 40 years since I left school, but give me any metric unit, even one I've never heard of and I can convert it into a bigger or smaller one in seconds in my head. Not only that, I could then communicate my result to almost any country in the world and be understood.

That is infinitely more useful to anybody than any (probably inaccurate) measurement of how much land one man and a horse can plough in a day.

I think you miss my point.  I was giving the origin of the Imperial units as something tangible to the user that they could appreciate.  By meaningful I meant that a unit has to be relatable to something in real life.  A metre, or a yard for that matter, is about the length of your leg. So that's understandable.  A metre used to be based on a standard metal bar held in a lab in Paris, but is now defined as the distance traveled by light in a vacuum in whatever fraction of a second it happens to be.  A second used to be defined by a fraction of a day, but is now defined in terms of vibrations of caesium atoms.

Metric units are equally tangible - we all know what a metre is, or a kilogram weighs etc, at least roughly - and the multiples in factors of 10 are obviously better than having 12 inches in a foot, 3 feet in a yard, 22 yards in a chain, 10 chains in a furlong, 8 furlongs in a mile etc.

If you want real confusion with units - women's dress sizes.  What's that all about?

[Gizo]

Maybe the Plod need a lesson in mph/kmh themselves after some bullshit social media post today. 
apparently explaining the difference to some French tourists after booking them for speeding. 
 

[John Wright]

2 minutes ago, wrighty said:

If you want real confusion with units - women's dress sizes.  What's that all about?

Or shoe sizes, and the fact that US and UK sizes are one apart.

Or chain coffee store small, standard, large and extra large, for which read mug, giant mug, bucket and ginormous, and don’t actually contain decent coffee

[A fool and his money.....]

5 minutes ago, wrighty said:

I think you miss my point.  I was giving the origin of the Imperial units as something tangible to the user that they could appreciate.  By meaningful I meant that a unit has to be relatable to something in real life.  A metre, or a yard for that matter, is about the length of your leg. So that's understandable.  A metre used to be based on a standard metal bar held in a lab in Paris, but is now defined as the distance traveled by light in a vacuum in whatever fraction of a second it happens to be.  A second used to be defined by a fraction of a day, but is now defined in terms of vibrations of caesium atoms.

Metric units are equally tangible - we all know what a metre is, or a kilogram weighs etc, at least roughly - and the multiples in factors of 10 are obviously better than having 12 inches in a foot, 3 feet in a yard, 22 yards in a chain, 10 chains in a furlong, 8 furlongs in a mile etc.

If you want real confusion with units - women's dress sizes.  What's that all about?

Women generally are extremely complex. Regarding dress sizes I find it's best to buy something that you know is too small, feign surprise when it doesn't fit, then return it and order the one you were going to order all along.

[A fool and his money.....]

10 minutes ago, wrighty said:

I think you miss my point.  I was giving the origin of the Imperial units as something tangible to the user that they could appreciate.  By meaningful I meant that a unit has to be relatable to something in real life.  A metre, or a yard for that matter, is about the length of your leg. So that's understandable.  

I disagree. I honestly couldn't tell you what any unit metric, imperial or otherwise relates to and yet I've used a variety of them successfully my whole life. (Possible exception being that a foot is roughly the length of your foot maybe?).

Measurements are useful only in the context of what you need to measure. I wouldn't use metres to measure the TT course, I'd use kilometres. I think that being able to convert between those units accurately by doing nothing more complicated than moving a decimal point is infinitely more useful in the modern world than being able to visualise the distance in terms of multiples of my own leg.

[Two-lane]

I blame the schools. How many children these days are taught that there are 5280 feet in a mile? Or how many feet to a furlong. There might be a few who know how many feet there are in a cricket pitch unless they have Europeanised that too.

[The Voice of Reason]

1 hour ago, John Wright said:

But you’re looking at the qualitative rather than the quantitative.

Beer is typically served in 300ml or 600ml glasses. They’re as near as can be to a half or full pint. 

In Spain you can order by the caña or pinta. Old names preserved. In Italy they still sell cheese, sliced meats etc, by the etto, 100gm, roughly a quarter.

Well exactly, each nation or geographical area has evolved it’s own  system of measurement, be it for liquids or distance etc.

And I say “ Vive la difference” . It makes visiting other climes seem (if only a little) more exotic, together with all the cultural differences.

I have hated to see the increased creeping homogenization of the world ( a McDonalds in every city or town in the world, par example) . Soon it won’t be worth traveling as everywhere you go will be a replica of where you already are.

Without getting into a different discussion this is why the EU mantra “ ever closer union” fills me with dread.

 

Edited June 5, 2023 by The Voice of Reason
Replaced phrase with “mantra”

[John Wright]

45 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Well exactly, each nation or geographical area has evolved it’s own  system of measurement, be it for liquids or distance etc.

And I say “ Vive la difference” . It makes visiting other climes seem (if only a little) more exotic, together with all the cultural differences.

I have hated to see the increased creeping homogenization of the world ( a McDonalds in every city or town in the world, par example) . Soon it won’t be worth traveling as everywhere you go will be a replica of where you already are.

Without getting into a different discussion this is why the EU mantra “ ever closer union” fills me with dread.

 

Except it’s nothing to do with the EU, nothing to do with sovereignty. Everything scientific, engineering and commercial is done in kg, m, etc. There are 7 countries/territories in the world that still use miles. And 200+ that don’t. Tuition has been in metric and decimal for 50 years. What are you holding on to? It’s little englandism, at its myopic worst.

And you’re conflating and confusing things, like shop fronts, with a reality. And there’s no reason why a big drink, standardised at 600ml, can’t be called a pint, and so on.

[wrighty]

1 hour ago, A fool and his money..... said:

I disagree. I honestly couldn't tell you what any unit metric, imperial or otherwise relates to and yet I've used a variety of them successfully my whole life. (Possible exception being that a foot is roughly the length of your foot maybe?).

Measurements are useful only in the context of what you need to measure. I wouldn't use metres to measure the TT course, I'd use kilometres. I think that being able to convert between those units accurately by doing nothing more complicated than moving a decimal point is infinitely more useful in the modern world than being able to visualise the distance in terms of multiples of my own leg.

Again, we’re at cross purposes. You might not know, or care, what each unit relates to, but you appreciate the scale.  And that’s all I mean by ‘meaningful’.  If I were to tell you that the TT course is 37 miles you can relate to that, because you know it might take you 15 minutes to walk a mile, or a couple of minutes drive. If I said the TT course is 0.0000000000064 light years it’d be meaningless, albeit accurate. 
 

I agree that metric units with multiples of 10, 1000 etc are much simpler to work with. 

[Maugholdmafia]

1 hour ago, Gizo said:

Maybe the Plod need a lesson in mph/kmh themselves after some bullshit social media post today. 
apparently explaining the difference to some French tourists after booking them for speeding. 
 

I saw that. Clearly made no sense and they rightly got criticized in the comments for it.

 

Sadly, our copy and paste esteemed journalists decided to jump on the bandwagon for a few extra clicks. 

 

I have found this year that the IOM police Roads police page seems to be ran unprofessionally and not fit for the public facing image of our constabulary. The posts are written in such a cocky and laddish manner it makes me cringe. I suppose it represents how the best coppers seem to all be leaving for greater roles within the gambling commision and other better paid roles. We are left with the dregs

 

 

 

 

[Passing Time]

What next? Get rid of pounds/shillings/pence in favour of euro…