Going metric-50 years later

[Moghrey Mie]

1 hour ago, Two-lane said:

I blame the schools. How many children these days are taught that there are 5280 feet in a mile? Or how many feet to a furlong. There might be a few who know how many feet there are in a cricket pitch unless they have Europeanised that too.

Schools have been metric since 1974. So I doubt whether they are still teaching furlongs.

[The Voice of Reason]

23 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Except it’s nothing to do with the EU, nothing to do with sovereignty. Everything scientific, engineering and commercial is done in kg, m, etc. There are 7 countries/territories in the world that still use miles. And 200+ that don’t. Tuition has been in metric and decimal for 50 years. What are you holding on to? It’s little englandism, at its myopic worst.

Nothing do to with sovereignty I agree. But the EU does want to standardize things across its borders ( the Euro currency perhaps?)

Anyway I resent the accusation of little Englandism and myopia. There is a lot for us to learn from other countries and cultures, and they from us. It’s a cheap shot.
I do believe that we shouldn’t let go of things that have served us well for centuries for no good reason. It’s not “ holding on” it’s just not adopting an alternative for no good reason.

Everyone knows that a mile is 1,760 yards. What is so difficult about that?

If you want to convert miles  into kilometres (or vice versa) there are plenty of tools that will do that for you ( most commonly called a calculator although no doubt there are apps). It’s not an insurmountable obstacle.

I enjoy traveling and soaking up different cultures. As I imagine you do from your posts. Please do not let us become one big world where each country and culture is indistinguishable from the others. Because it makes things “easier”

[John Wright]

17 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

not adopting an alternative for no good reason.

Except there are hundreds of reasons all good, and no good reason, ( nostalgia, sentimentalism or little englandism are not good reasons ) not to

17 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Everyone knows that a mile is 1,760 yards. What is so difficult about that?

You’d be surprised if you asked most people under 40

18 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

If you want to convert miles  into kilometres (or vice versa) there are plenty of tools

I wouldn’t know. I use my brain and it’s instantaneous

 

20 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Please do not let us become one big world where each country and culture is indistinguishable

That’s just silly. Using km won’t have that effect at all. Because I do travel widely I know that using kg, or km, or euros doesn’t make countries indistinguishable nor does it merge cultures. 

 

23 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

But the EU does want to standardize things across its borders

Metrification, and decimalisation are nothing to do with the EU, as you well know.

And as for the euro, it’s not perfect, but it seems to have weathered the first big storm. No doubt there’ll be other storms. Whether it’ll last, who knows. But UK had a permanent opt out. When, eventually, in 15, 20, 25 years, long after I’m gone, after the UK rejoining the single market, the customs union and becoming a candidate EU member, it will be compulsory.

[A fool and his money.....]

2 hours ago, wrighty said:

Again, we’re at cross purposes. You might not know, or care, what each unit relates to, but you appreciate the scale.  And that’s all I mean by ‘meaningful’.  If I were to tell you that the TT course is 37 miles you can relate to that, because you know it might take you 15 minutes to walk a mile, or a couple of minutes drive. If I said the TT course is 0.0000000000064 light years it’d be meaningless, albeit accurate. 
 

I agree that metric units with multiples of 10, 1000 etc are much simpler to work with. 

Ah right, I get you. Yes I agree, all you need is familiar units.

I get what you were saying about the length of your leg or the area one man could plough in a day being important historically, when perhaps there was no other practical way of standardising measurements, but that has no relevance in the modern world.

I think those resistant to change only have to look as far as the building trade to see what's possible. A measurement intensive job which is notoriously reluctant to embrace new ideas. Yet invite the most venerable builder you can find to measure up your new kitchen and,complete with flat cap and pipe, he'll measure it in metres or millimetres - for the simple reason that that is what his materials are now sold in, necessity is the mother of invention and all that.

The metric system would be worth using on its own in isolation, it's that good. The fact that all but about one or two countries in the world use it make it a complete no brainer.

The British and by extraction the Americans just need to get over the fact that sometimes other countries do things better than they do.

 

[A fool and his money.....]

2 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Nothing do to with sovereignty I agree. But the EU does want to standardize things across its borders ( the Euro currency perhaps?)

Anyway I resent the accusation of little Englandism and myopia. There is a lot for us to learn from other countries and cultures, and they from us. It’s a cheap shot.
I do believe that we shouldn’t let go of things that have served us well for centuries for no good reason. It’s not “ holding on” it’s just not adopting an alternative for no good reason.

Everyone knows that a mile is 1,760 yards. What is so difficult about that?

If you want to convert miles  into kilometres (or vice versa) there are plenty of tools that will do that for you ( most commonly called a calculator although no doubt there are apps). It’s not an insurmountable obstacle.

I enjoy traveling and soaking up different cultures. As I imagine you do from your posts. Please do not let us become one big world where each country and culture is indistinguishable from the others. Because it makes things “easier”

I'm all for countries holding on to their culture and agree our differences are what make travel worthwhile and rewarding.

There's nothing quite like the sense of childlike wonder experienced when visiting somewhere that is completely different from where you live, even the language being completely alien to you, it's great.

That said the imperial system is just so nonsensical, so archaic, so clunky and so bloody awkward as to be completely irrelevant in the modern world. As John rightly says, it was abandoned in science and engineering decades ago, it's just a crap system that has been monumentally superceded by the metric system.

You say everyone knows there are 1,760 yards in a mile so what's so difficult about that? Well I, in common with most of the world had no idea, and I tell you what's so difficult about that: 

If I want to convert from yards to miles I have to divide by 1,760(having first looked up that number that I will have forgotten by tomorrow). Without a calculator I wouldn't even know where to begin. Yet to convert from metres to kilometres I'd move the decimal point three places to the left (because 1000 has three zeros).

I was schooled in a time when imperial units were still favoured, yet I have no idea how many ounces are in a pound, how many pounds in a stone, how many pints in a gallon or how many yards in a furlong. Why? Because they're all different. The only thing any of them have in common is that you wouldn't want to multiply or divide by them unless you absolutely have to. Luckily you don't, the French have invented an infinitely better system that suits the memory and mathematical skills of people like myself and the majority of the rest of the world. The fact that some people are reluctant to use it beggars belief IMHO.

The empire has been dead for years and it was hardly something to be proud of anyway. The sooner its units are similarly confined to history the better.

 

[A fool and his money.....]

4 hours ago, Two-lane said:

I blame the schools. How many children these days are taught that there are 5280 feet in a mile? Or how many feet to a furlong. There might be a few who know how many feet there are in a cricket pitch unless they have Europeanised that too.

5280 feet in a mile or 1000 metres in a kilometre.

It has nothing to do with Europeanism and everything to do with common sense.

[The Voice of Reason]

8 hours ago, A fool and his money..... said:

I'm all for countries holding on to their culture and agree our differences are what make travel worthwhile and rewarding.

There's nothing quite like the sense of childlike wonder experienced when visiting somewhere that is completely different from where you live, even the language being completely alien to you, it's great.

That said the imperial system is just so nonsensical, so archaic, so clunky and so bloody awkward as to be completely irrelevant in the modern world. As John rightly says, it was abandoned in science and engineering decades ago, it's just a crap system that has been monumentally superceded by the metric system.

You say everyone knows there are 1,760 yards in a mile so what's so difficult about that? Well I, in common with most of the world had no idea, and I tell you what's so difficult about that: 

If I want to convert from yards to miles I have to divide by 1,760(having first looked up that number that I will have forgotten by tomorrow). Without a calculator I wouldn't even know where to begin. Yet to convert from metres to kilometres I'd move the decimal point three places to the left (because 1000 has three zeros).

I was schooled in a time when imperial units were still favoured, yet I have no idea how many ounces are in a pound, how many pounds in a stone, how many pints in a gallon or how many yards in a furlong. Why? Because they're all different. The only thing any of them have in common is that you wouldn't want to multiply or divide by them unless you absolutely have to. Luckily you don't, the French have invented an infinitely better system that suits the memory and mathematical skills of people like myself and the majority of the rest of the world. The fact that some people are reluctant to use it beggars belief IMHO.

The empire has been dead for years and it was hardly something to be proud of anyway. The sooner its units are similarly confined to history the better.

 

Like I mentioned earlier, everyone just seems to want the “ easy” option and not have to exercise their brain.

I do concede that unfortunately because of this imperial units are doomed, in the relentless march towards full decimalisation.

Its a shame. We are losing our heritage.

[Dr Beeching]

18 hours ago, A fool and his money..... said:

100% yes.

There is no compelling reason to use any other units than metric ones in the modern world.

Why we allow politics or historical stubborness to prevent us using what is an incomparably better system I'll never know.

I can only imagine bruised egos are the reason America and to a lesser extent the UK (and so by default the IoM) don't embrace it. "We can't be using something the French invented even though it's a million times better than ours." Pure nonsense.

The ancients were on to something using base 12, but metric turned out to be superior.

[Barlow]

22 hours ago, John Wright said:

No idea why we haven’t followed through, no idea why one of the things touted as a Brexit benefit was the ability to buy champagne in pint bottles. ( does any champagne house actually do that now they have the freedom.)

To be fair, caviar is often sold by the ounce, or 30gram portion. Which is near enough.

[John Wright]

3 minutes ago, Barlow said:

To be fair, caviar is often sold by the ounce, or 30gram portion. Which is near enough.

That's because the biggest market is USA

[Barlow]

I eat it with chips, especially on a Friday.

[manxman1980]

On 6/6/2023 at 8:21 AM, The Voice of Reason said:

Like I mentioned earlier, everyone just seems to want the “ easy” option and not have to exercise their brain.

I do concede that unfortunately because of this imperial units are doomed, in the relentless march towards full decimalisation.

Its a shame. We are losing our heritage.

If I am working for a multinational engineering company it is extremely useful to have a common system of measurements.

I presume that you support the French attempting to protect their language from adopting English/American words?  Or are you happy that English is currently the global business language because you are to lazy to learn another language? 

[The Voice of Reason]

2 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

If I am working for a multinational engineering company it is extremely useful to have a common system of measurements.

I presume that you support the French attempting to protect their language from adopting English/American words?  Or are you happy that English is currently the global business language because you are to lazy to learn another language? 

Yes I think the French ( and other nationalities)  should try to protect their language from adopting English/American words ( As the English should resist the Americanisation of their language) In writing this I had to manually change the auto spelling from Americanization to Americanisation!

I am not too lazy to learn another language. Whilst I couldn’t claim in any way to be multilingual  I manage to get by in a few European countries with the local lingo.

With global business language how many languages are there in the world?

Between 5,000 and 7,000 languages apparently. ( as opposed to just metric and imperial measurements)

So it’s clearly impractical to learn that number of languages. So you’ve got to have one. English is the global business language for largely historical reasons and is the most popular language in the world. So it kind of makes sense

Edited June 7, 2023 by The Voice of Reason
Addition of second bit to para 4

[John Wright]

20 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Yes I think the French ( and other nationalities)  should try to protect their language from adopting English/American words ( As the English should resist the Americanisation of their language) In writing this I had to manually change the auto spelling from Americanization to Americanisation!

I am not too lazy to learn another language. Whilst I couldn’t claim in any way to be multilingual  I manage to get by in a few European countries with the local lingo.

With global business language how many languages are there in the world?

Between 5,000 and 7,000 languages apparently. ( as opposed to just metric and imperial measurements)

So it’s clearly impractical to learn that number of languages. So you’ve got to have one. English is the global business language for largely historical reasons and is the most popular language in the world. So it kind of makes sense

So, with your pride in your culture, and not wishing to be assimilated, how’s your Manx, and what are your views on Manx language classes all the way through primary, junior and secondary education?

[wrighty]

22 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Yes I think the French ( and other nationalities)  should try to protect their language from adopting English/American words ( As the English should resist the Americanisation of their language) 

I disagree.  Languages constantly evolve and adopt new words while others fall out of usage.  Artificially protecting/defining won't work.