Minister of Treasury - Dr Spend - waffle, spin, deflect

[Banker]

On 6/22/2023 at 7:48 PM, Mann O Mann said:

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/mass-austerity-the-alternative-to-spending-from-reserves/

I listened to this podcast from our Treasury Minister and it was a very uncomfortable listen . He seemed absolutely clueless with no grasp of what needs to be done. 

He talked about the only alternative to spending 10% of the IOM reserve was to reduce public services .

What about a plan to reduce the size of the Government administration over a period of time !

It does not have to be all at once but at least communicate some sort of plan. 

Government overspending is catching up with them and he is absolutely clueless.

Our near term Island expenses with an aging population, pension commitments, infrastructure spend , renewable energy costs ……. And he maintains he will balance the budget within this administration…….give me a break .

High on principle low on practicality .

There could be trouble ahead …..

Will he face the music and “dance”…,,

Or he is laying the ground work to increase our taxes in the near term.

Doctor Spend 

 

Well austerity will mean cutting public services which would obviously mean reducing head count, presumably things like buses, DFE budgets, DOI budgets, all capex frozen etc.

Also new tax policy is being Announced December when it’s already hinted will include higher taxes particularly for higher earners, eg higher rates, maybe higher taxes on unearned income, NI definitely needs increasing for most 

[Jarndyce]

19 hours ago, WTF said:

getting rid of dead wood usually improves service.  less staff doesn't automatically mean less service.

Ah, yes: but that depends who gets to define the “dead wood”.
 

For example: let’s say the Board and the many dozens of senior managers set an “efficiency drive” (or a Cost Improvement Plan!) in Manx Care…we lose services, access to drugs, beds on wards and front-line staff - and everything gets worse.   What was needed was to get rid of the “dead wood” at senior management level - but who gets to decide that?   The “arms-length” Minister?   The CEO (turkeys voting for Christmas comes to mind)?   Cabinet Office?   We’ve got an “inverted pyramid” model, where an ever growing army of managers are being supported by an ever-diminishing cohort of front-line workers, who are exhorted to save save save at every turn.

No wonder there is discontent from doctors, nurses and everybody else who actually work for the patients…

Now, multiply that scenario by the number of IOMG departments.

 

 

[Non-Believer]

[Cambon]

2 hours ago, Banker said:

Well austerity will mean cutting public services which would obviously mean reducing head count, presumably things like buses, DFE budgets, DOI budgets, all capex frozen etc.

Also new tax policy is being Announced December when it’s already hinted will include higher taxes particularly for higher earners, eg higher rates, maybe higher taxes on unearned income, NI definitely needs increasing for most 

Agreed, especially on the NI. The rates should be at least as much as uk, but the high earners “Cap” percentage needs to rise. 

[Andy Onchan]

21 minutes ago, Cambon said:

Agreed, especially on the NI. The rates should be at least as much as uk, but the high earners “Cap” percentage needs to rise. 

But NI only pays for pensions & benefits not towards health or any other departmental budget (unless you're advocating that NI gets rolled into income tax). 

[Banker]

3 hours ago, Andy Onchan said:

But NI only pays for pensions & benefits not towards health or any other departmental budget (unless you're advocating that NI gets rolled into income tax). 

The government can use it for whatever they want, I would prefer a separate health tax say 2% on all earnings over £50k & 1% £25-£50k.

i think Treasury will definitely put up taxes for higher earnings whatever that is classed at, Alex is left leaning & wants higher earners to pay more which is what hopefully the majority wants 

[Ringy Rose]

4 hours ago, Cambon said:

Agreed, especially on the NI. The rates should be at least as much as uk

The NI rate is higher in the UK, but the threshold at which you start paying it is also higher in the UK. I actually pay slightly more NI here than I would in the UK.

[Ringy Rose]

On 6/23/2023 at 2:44 PM, Andy Onchan said:

For example, is it really necessary to have 4 x CEOs in DfE for Digital, Finance, Business & Visit??? Why do they have to be designated as a CEO? Why not HEOs remunerated according to the appropriate published pay scales?

Because of the way those four boards have been constituted as semi-autonomous executive agencies then yes, it probably is necessary. IIRC these roles are on the PSC pay scale above SEO level- the Chair isn’t, but that’s also not a CS role. A HEO is a relatively middle management tier.

Whether it is necessary to have four separate executive agencies all doing similar jobs is a different question. I’d probably say not.

Focusing on the DfE is fiddling with deckchairs though. The entire DfE wage bill, including everything they do (ship registry, aircraft registry, the agencies, work permits, etc), is about £8m. Not to be sniffed at, although the DfE does make nearly all of that back in revenue, mostly from the registries. DfE’s net deficit is about £40,000. But in context, the nursing wage bill is about £52m, the teaching wage bill is about £40m.

Edited June 24, 2023 by Ringy Rose

[woolley]

On 6/22/2023 at 10:41 PM, Non-Believer said:

It would be interesting to let a professional right-sizing outfit loose on IoMG.

I've been saying this for many years. They would have an absolute field day. It'll never happen though because they absolutely know what the report would say and turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

There are areas of government providing vital functions that are chronically understaffed at the sharp end with the people tearing their hair out and trying to cope, while at the same time there are legions of management that do nothing useful at all and would not be missed.

Maybe one less controversial place to start than a right-sizing report would be a study of exactly how and where government has expanded since 2000, and then decide how much of the additional "work" being done as a result is absolutely necessary. Aim to abolish posts, perhaps discontinue functions and redeploy where possible. Freeze on recruitment of management. At present it appears to be full steam ahead.

Ah well, it massages the GDP figures to look better than they otherwise would, I suppose. I believe a lot of the expansion has been done at the behest of the UK, masquerading as best practice. Fine if the UK want to continue funding it for us.

[TheTeapot]

[Cambon]

On 6/24/2023 at 3:27 PM, Banker said:

The government can use it for whatever they want, I would prefer a separate health tax say 2% on all earnings over £50k & 1% £25-£50k.

i think Treasury will definitely put up taxes for higher earnings whatever that is classed at, Alex is left leaning & wants higher earners to pay more which is what hopefully the majority wants 

My thinking is that NI should be charged at full rate on all earnings. At the moment, the crossover is roughly at the 10-20% threshold. Either that, or increase the 20% to 25%, but that would be very unpopular. Easier, simpler to put the increase on NI. 

[Cambon]

.

On 6/24/2023 at 12:22 PM, Andy Onchan said:

But NI only pays for pensions & benefits not towards health or any other departmental budget (unless you're advocating that NI gets rolled into income tax). 

It does all get rolled in together. No. NI, which raises more than income tax (IIRC) also is supposed to pay for the health service. 

[John Wright]

37 minutes ago, Cambon said:

.

It does all get rolled in together. No. NI, which raises more than income tax (IIRC) also is supposed to pay for the health service. 

No. A small amount of NI is allocated to health. The vast majority goes to pay for contributory benefits, state pensions, etc.

NI is specifically paid into the NI fund which is different from other tax revenue.

[finlo]

2 minutes ago, John Wright said:

No. A small amount of NI is allocated to health. The vast majority goes to pay for contributory benefits, state pensions, etc.

NI is specifically paid into the NI fund which is different from other tax revenue.

A nice little piggy bank about to get raided!

[Cambon]

30 minutes ago, John Wright said:

No. A small amount of NI is allocated to health. The vast majority goes to pay for contributory benefits, state pensions, etc.

NI is specifically paid into the NI fund which is different from other tax revenue.

John, you know as well as I, that it is all smoke and mirrors. It all effectively goes into the same pot, whether they split it between 20 accounts, or whatever, it is all one pot.