MER Cover Up

[Roger Mexico]

2 minutes ago, Two-lane said:

That may be so, but there are other factors to consider in that report. The first is that the author's name has been redacted - I find that incredible. The second is the assertion that the driver had 40 years' experience driving trams - the implication is that he had a permanent full-time job driving trams for 40 years, which is clearly not true.

The desperate attempt to pretend that speed wasn't a factor is quite comical isn't it?  It's like they are trying to convince themself and failing even at that.  Of course Longworth was still in charge of transport when it was written, so he couldn't be upset.;  He certainly drove buses too fast, so I would imagine he'd be the same with other modes of transport..

The bit about experience is also very carefully worded:

But if his Rule Book was only signed for in 2020, does that mean he wasn't driving these particular trams before then?  And of course a driver who wasn't full time at that certainly shouldn't have been in charge of one that was non-standard like this one.

I'm less worried about the report being anonymous, none of the Rail Accident Investigation Branch's are authored, though they're probably produced by several people.  But equally well they aren't internal to the same organisation - and in Manx Government this author certainly won't be anonymous.  Which brings us to my usual point that these investigations should be carried out by the professionals of RAIB, rather than the locals.  RAIB also cover trams and vintage transport in the UK, not just the main railways.

[piebaps]

3 hours ago, Non-Believer said:

The report that was full of redactions to protect the innocent...?

The only redaction was the name of the author. Try reading the report perhaps.

[Non-Believer]

57 minutes ago, piebaps said:

The only redaction was the name of the author. Try reading the report perhaps.

Thanks Ian.

You missed out the redaction of the names of the leader of the maintenance team involved in assisting the investigation;

whoever signed off the inspection record;

whoever defines acceptable wear and maintenance limits;

whoever is now assessing the recommended asset management systems;

And whoever is receiving the recommendations.

Try reading beyond skim fashion 😉

 

[Andy Onchan]

21 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

The desperate attempt to pretend that speed wasn't a factor is quite comical isn't it?  It's like they are trying to convince themself and failing even at that.  Of course Longworth was still in charge of transport when it was written, so he couldn't be upset.;  He certainly drove buses too fast, so I would imagine he'd be the same with other modes of transport..

The bit about experience is also very carefully worded:

But if his Rule Book was only signed for in 2020, does that mean he wasn't driving these particular trams before then?  And of course a driver who wasn't full time at that certainly shouldn't have been in charge of one that was non-standard like this one.

I'm less worried about the report being anonymous, none of the Rail Accident Investigation Branch's are authored, though they're probably produced by several people.  But equally well they aren't internal to the same organisation - and in Manx Government this author certainly won't be anonymous.  Which brings us to my usual point that these investigations should be carried out by the professionals of RAIB, rather than the locals.  RAIB also cover trams and vintage transport in the UK, not just the main railways.

That will be resisted on the grounds that the RAIB will likely find lots and lots of other non-compliant issues and procedures.

[Two-lane]

"The driver has an up to date certificate of competence to drive tramcars and signed
for his Rule Book on 5 March 2020.
His driver’s competence examination is up to date and expires on 31 December 2021.
His medical expires on 9 May 2022."

I am not sure about the relevance of signing for a Rule Book, other than to sign that you have received a book that describes the rules. I have one somewhere.

Someone who was designated as a person of competence passed me as ok to drive MER trams. Any MER tram. There are no non-standard trams. They are all non-standard.

When I worked there, there was no expiration date. Once passed, always passed - although that may or may not be so now.

I do not understand the significance of the date 5 March 2020. Longworth has occasionally been driving MER, Snaefell and steam trains since he arrived here.

But here is the significant factor: Who gave Longworth the licence to drive? Put yourself in the position of someone standing alongside Longworth in the cab, and telling him that he isn't going to get a licence because he drives recklessly. Someone who works for Longworth. Someone who Longworth can kick into the far distance without any comeback. As McEnroe said: "You can't be serious".

Longworth signed his own licence to drive trams and steam trains.

[And the medical bit is suspicious. My medical did not involve a hearing test. Hearing the emergency bell is important. On an occasion I was conducting, I gave the driver, Longworth, the emergency stop bell - someone had missed their stop. After two or three attempts I walked to the front of the tram, tapped Longworth on the shoulder and told him to stop. I suspect his hearing is not as good as it could be.]

Here is a photo of the signal bell mechanism on one of the trams during the time I worked there:

 

The sophisticates amongst you might recognise a piece of welding rod. I got a small puncture wound from yanking on that once. But do not blame the workers.

The managers at the time I was there were just bus drivers who got lucky. They did not know the difference between welding rods and rebar.

 

 

 

[Ringy Rose]

On 6/23/2023 at 3:47 PM, Roger Mexico said:

The desperate attempt to pretend that speed wasn't a factor is quite comical isn't it?  It's like they are trying to convince themself and failing even at that.

If the GPS data was that he wasn’t speeding then how does one conclude it was because of speeding?

Having read the report I’d say it was damning enough without having to come up with conspiracy theories.

[Roxanne]

1 hour ago, Two-lane said:

"The driver has an up to date certificate of competence to drive tramcars and signed
for his Rule Book on 5 March 2020.
His driver’s competence examination is up to date and expires on 31 December 2021.
His medical expires on 9 May 2022."

I am not sure about the relevance of signing for a Rule Book, other than to sign that you have received a book that describes the rules. I have one somewhere.

Someone who was designated as a person of competence passed me as ok to drive MER trams. Any MER tram. There are no non-standard trams. They are all non-standard.

When I worked there, there was no expiration date. Once passed, always passed - although that may or may not be so now.

I do not understand the significance of the date 5 March 2020. Longworth has occasionally been driving MER, Snaefell and steam trains since he arrived here.

But here is the significant factor: Who gave Longworth the licence to drive? Put yourself in the position of someone standing alongside Longworth in the cab, and telling him that he isn't going to get a licence because he drives recklessly. Someone who works for Longworth. Someone who Longworth can kick into the far distance without any comeback. As McEnroe said: "You can't be serious".

Longworth signed his own licence to drive trams and steam trains.

[And the medical bit is suspicious. My medical did not involve a hearing test. Hearing the emergency bell is important. On an occasion I was conducting, I gave the driver, Longworth, the emergency stop bell - someone had missed their stop. After two or three attempts I walked to the front of the tram, tapped Longworth on the shoulder and told him to stop. I suspect his hearing is not as good as it could be.]

Here is a photo of the signal bell mechanism on one of the trams during the time I worked there:

 

The sophisticates amongst you might recognise a piece of welding rod. I got a small puncture wound from yanking on that once. But do not blame the workers.

The managers at the time I was there were just bus drivers who got lucky. They did not know the difference between welding rods and rebar.

 

 

 

I hope you’re somewhere ‘healthier’ now. 

[CallMeCurious]

On 6/23/2023 at 1:58 PM, piebaps said:

Speed wasn't a factor. It didn't cause the derailment and it didn't make it worse - according to the report.

So a passenger vehicle was being driven at a speed that made the ride quality uncomfortable?  That tells you all you need to know about the standard of driving.

Maybe when they retire they ought to get a Hornby set and piss off to their attic and don't come back.

Also 40 years as a tram driver so what? How many hours per year was the driver employed to drive a tram?

[Two-lane]

9 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

I hope you’re somewhere ‘healthier’ now. 

Ramsey. North of the river. Only for the brave. But thank you for your concern.

[HelmutX]

On 6/24/2023 at 9:30 PM, Two-lane said:

Ramsey. North of the river. Only for the brave. But thank you for your concern.

Yeah, up here in Gods country! Wankers can stay souff and cover up their sh!te.... hang on...... the Ramsey Commissioners want to lay claim on Lezayre..... seems he words "honest", "sincere" and "reputable" should never be used when describing any IoM supported department or MHK.... all are just sponges on our taxes

[The Port Soderick Herald]

On 6/24/2023 at 9:14 PM, Ringy Rose said:

If the GPS data was that he wasn’t speeding then how does one conclude it was because of speeding?

Why would the report conclude that they should fit speedometers and GPS if speed was apparently not a factor in the accident? Presumably they didn’t recommend the fitting of wings just in case they wanted to fly the thing as well?

[Ringy Rose]

20 hours ago, The Port Soderick Herald said:

Why would the report conclude that they should fit speedometers and GPS if speed was apparently not a factor in the accident?

Because a speedo is an obvious thing to have and a data logger prevents any arguments in future?

The GPS on the ticket machines indicated he wasn’t speeding.

[ellanvannin2010]

  

8 minutes ago, Ringy Rose said:

 

The GPS on the ticket machines indicated he wasn’t speeding.

But it would appear faster than necessary to run to schedule

[fredtosser]

There is a rumour doing the rounds within the DOI that a certain retired director of Transport was involved in another tram incident during the recent event, where he moved off before being told to by a conductor (who was another senior employee of DOI), and the conductor fell off the back and broke his ankle. Further alleged that injured party was not wearing appropriate ppe and is now in hot water. 

[Zarley]

1 hour ago, fredtosser said:

Further alleged that injured party was not wearing appropriate ppe and is now in hot water. 

Hope he has appropriate PPE for hot water!