MUA water meters

[Roger Mexico]

5 hours ago, english zloty said:

For example Ballure has broken in two and was supposed to be decommissioned 10 years ago. That alone is like trying to fill a sieve on a daily basis 🙃

Well according to the MUA:

The reservoir has not been used as a raw water resource since 2005 following the closure of the old treatment works and is now used solely for recreational purposes. It remains under the ownership of Manx Utilities.

They also have an interesting page on Leakage and Burst Pipes 

[Two-lane]

Apart from the purchase and installation cost of water meters, note that the meters do not read themselves. There would be the cost of meter-readers or the additional cost of smart meters (and transmission infrastructure). Then there is the cost of computer and software systems to process the readings and send out bills, and the staff to run them - take a look at how Manx Gas manages with that.

The computer systems have a limited lifetime, with the cost of replacement and staff retraining on the new systems.

And, there would be a need for a CMO (Chief Meter Officer), and a deputy.

Those people who state that other countries have water meters, so why don't we, might check if those countries have anything cheaper than we do? If so, why can't we have the cheap ideas from other countries instead of just the expensive bits?

 

[John Wright]

I have water meters in both Bulgaria and Spain. The method of charge is different. Both are domestic. 

Spain charges a small (€10) monthly fixed charge, then consumption is on a sliding scale, first few cubic meters are a low price, next few are double that, next few are double that, top tranche is eye watering.

Bulgarian is €30 each month plus a low flat rate for consumption.

And there’s the rub. The majority of the cost of water supply is not the direct cost of the product supplied through the pipes, it’s the infrastructure costs of reservoirs and pipe network. The water is free. Obviously water charge also has to cover waste & sewage removal and treatment. That also has a capital cost, but there’s now a treatment cost as we aren’t relying on sea outfalls.

Im not sure that metering is a panacea unless you have the split between charging for infrastructure and supply and waste product treatment correct.

it’s all well and good to think that a single householder in a large house should get a much lower bill. But maybe the cost of fixed charge should be related to house size/potential capacity/demand.

I also worry about an escalating (rationing) price structure for families with children or larger families.

[woolley]

The much lower bill for the single occupier would never materialise though. It will be peanuts less than what is the norm now, with everyone else paying a lot more.

[english zloty]

2 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

Well according to the MUA:

The reservoir has not been used as a raw water resource since 2005 following the closure of the old treatment works and is now used solely for recreational purposes. It remains under the ownership of Manx Utilities.

They also have an interesting page on Leakage and Burst Pipes 

Service Reservoir located under the old WTW. It fills up at night and backfills into Ramsey and the north during the day. It is effectively filled up twice as often as it needs to be 

[Happier diner]

2 hours ago, Two-lane said:

 

It is true that in the end, the consumer will pay. But the pipes under the road will continue to degrade, and leak even more, until there is so much water being leaked that the consumers will not be allowed to make a cup of coffee.

The infrastructure must be maintained. Money spent on installing water meters (which are themselves part of the infrastructure and therefore have a cost to maintain) would be better on stopping the leaks. In my opinion.

Some good points. The report says they are going to lay more than 10kms of replacement mains each year. 

Water meters are a way of making people think about their usage. At the moment water is treated like it has no value. 

[Cambon]

43 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Some good points. The report says they are going to lay more than 10kms of replacement mains each year. 

Water meters are a way of making people think about their usage. At the moment water is treated like it has no value. 

Not really. At the moment we are paying a lot for water (water rate and sewerage tax). More than enough than to maintain and renew the current infrastructure. But, perhaps the problem is the additional infrastructure required for the 15,000 immigrants the government thinks will solve all our problems! 

[Two-lane]

I am somewhat vague about this, but were not Manx Water and Manx Electricity merged into one unit so that the customers would not be aware of how much of their water bill was being used to pay off the electricity debt?

[Happier diner]

16 minutes ago, Cambon said:

Not really. At the moment we are paying a lot for water (water rate and sewerage tax). More than enough than to maintain and renew the current infrastructure

True, But I don't think that is anything to do with the debate. It's about having enough water not raising money. 

[english zloty]

1 hour ago, Two-lane said:

I am somewhat vague about this, but were not Manx Water and Manx Electricity merged into one unit so that the customers would not be aware of how much of their water bill was being used to pay off the electricity debt?

And before that with DOT drainage to hide the IRIS overspend. £25million rehabilitation money disappeared overnight. The £25 million was budgeted in the original Crystal Project, so effectively taxpayers will be paying twice to get a fraction of what was promised

[Cambon]

1 hour ago, Happier diner said:

True, But I don't think that is anything to do with the debate. It's about having enough water not raising money. 

There is no shortage of water, just the ability to process it at peak times, like TT. Oh, and when the 15,000 immigrants arrive! 

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, Cambon said:

There is no shortage of water, just the ability to process it at peak times, like TT. Oh, and when the 15,000 immigrants arrive! 

Not sure I agree. Yes, in the short term, but in the long term things could be different. One really dry year, we will be fucked. Where will we get our water if it didn't rain from March to October. 

[ADELE]

I am over 80 and do not remember a dry year so don’t panic.

[Dirty Buggane]

3 hours ago, Happier diner said:

True, But I don't think that is anything to do with the debate. It's about having enough water not raising money. 

You must be looking through rose tinted glasses while wearing huge tram horse blinkers,  if you believe that statement. That is what it is only about.

[Two-lane]

Global warming? It's July. Look out of the window.

Those bidets are the problem, that's my opinion.