offshoremanxman Posted July 11, 2023 Share Posted July 11, 2023 8 minutes ago, Gladys said: The possibility of the SpCo defaulting is accepted, I think. That bond money is being repaid interest only currently by us out of general revenue. The SPC could very clearly default. Or indeed anything could happen in the next 20 to 30 years. And it’s the coupon issuer (Treasury) who is responsible for the repayment of the primary debt. Not the SPC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted July 11, 2023 Share Posted July 11, 2023 Gosh you need a firm control shampoo Girl!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted July 11, 2023 Share Posted July 11, 2023 4 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said: That bond money is being repaid interest only currently by us out of general revenue. The SPC could very clearly default. Or indeed anything could happen in the next 20 to 30 years. And it’s the coupon issuer (Treasury) who is responsible for the repayment of the primary debt. Not the SPC. Yes, we get that, but SPC will have to meet the terms of its loan from IOMG. Is what you are saying that the SPC have been given a soft, no interest, no repayment loan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshoremanxman Posted July 11, 2023 Share Posted July 11, 2023 Just now, Gladys said: Yes, we get that, but SPC will have to meet the terms of its loan from IOMG. But essentially it doesn’t matter. It they default we’ll be covering it regardless as it’s us (Treasury) which has the primary debt obligation to the note holders. And it’s Treasury that will need to meet all obligations due under the primary borrowing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted July 11, 2023 Share Posted July 11, 2023 4 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said: But essentially it doesn’t matter. It they default we’ll be covering it regardless as it’s us (Treasury) which has the primary debt obligation to the note holders. And it’s Treasury that will need to meet all obligations due under the primary borrowing. IF they default. There is a business with assets there, it is not as though the bond has been used to give everyone, say, a free trip on the MER. Then there would be no assets, no commercial operation which would be capable of repaying the loan. Just don't get your point. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted July 11, 2023 Share Posted July 11, 2023 Truth is, if you buy a ticket on the boat, part, a very small part, of the price will be for repayment of the loan, if you're a tax payer,ypu are paying off the loan. Of course you could always boycott the SP and fly, that's a safe alternative??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Lamb Posted July 11, 2023 Share Posted July 11, 2023 4 minutes ago, Kopek said: Truth is, if you buy a ticket on the boat, part, a very small part, of the price will be for repayment of the loan, if you're a tax payer,ypu are paying off the loan. Of course you could always boycott the SP and fly, that's a safe alternative??? Safer than taking a taxi, for sure 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackwhite Posted July 11, 2023 Share Posted July 11, 2023 Can anyone apply for one of these taxpayers money loans? Sounds great. Honestly the reason I stopped replying yesterday. The rest of Manx Forums is like ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 This whole loan to loan thing is pretty common in the finance world especially with short-term mezzanine finance. It used to be very common up till about 10/5 years ago before the base rates came down so low that banks were falling over themselves to lend money and get some sort of return. I’ve seen it starting to become popular again now that interest rates are higher and maybe going somewhere other than a bank for your financing is looking more attractive. It’s not like the IOM Govt and SPC are doing anything that crazy, groundbreaking or inappropriate. If I have access to liquid funds at a particularly low rate, I may then lend those funds onto someone else at a higher rate and cream off the difference as earnings/income. Where do you think (non bank) finance companies get the money that they lend out? Govt lending the funds to SPC would appear to be a reasonable commercial decision, assuming they are charging a higher % than they would receive if funds just sat in the bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 Adding to the above, what are people's thoughts on the Govt Reserves that are invested in the stock markets and ultimately used to fund pensions etc? Surely this is also 'taxpayers money' that is invested into companies, we don't demand that we go and have a snoop around Facebook HQ because we happen to own their shares. I'm also thinking specifically countries like Norway and its Norfund - the worlds biggest Sovereign wealth fund, that is ultimately used for its pension and welfare requirements. It's initially funded by oil & gas royalties, but then invests these funds into numerous global projects, often in developing countries and ethical or green investments. Not so different from what we have done with SPC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshoremanxman Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 2 hours ago, The Phantom said: It’s not like the IOM Govt and SPC are doing anything that crazy, groundbreaking or inappropriate. I don’t think anyone claimed that anything inappropriate was going on. Just that the investment into the ship was funded by taxpayer money. In this case a bond raising on the stock market backed by IOM Governments credit rating and to be repaid from general tax revenue for the next 25-30 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 On 7/11/2023 at 9:26 PM, Gladys said: it is not as though the bond has been used to give everyone, say, a free trip on the MER. I'd have gone for that plan before the Liverpool ferry terminal jape any day. If the Steamy defaults we'll all starve, so you're all worrying about the wrong thing. It could have been worse, by the way. They could have given the Manxman contract to that shipbuilder in Scotland where Calmac went for theirs. The only niggle I have is if she turns out less than perfect for the job, it's a bloody long way to take her back for a refund. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newaccount Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 Funding is covered here https://www.steam-packet.com/blog/new-vessel-manxman-frequently-asked-questions/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian rush Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 Away with your facts. More rumours required. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bserver Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 21 minutes ago, woolley said: The only niggle I have is if she turns out less than perfect for the job, it's a bloody long way to take her back for a refund. Don't worry, there's no danger of a refund. That boy Ashford tripped up the gangplank and accidentally shredded all the paperwork.. receipts, owners manual, service history - the lot! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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