Chris Thomas MHK sacked from DOI

[Zarley]

1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said:

The trouble is that Ministers can voice their concerns within government (eg in CoMin meetings), but they're bound by CoMin rules not to do so outside that.  So we don't know how much support policies actually - they could pass by 5-4 in CoMin but all 9 members will be obliged to support them publicly.  It also means that something can get through Keys/Tynwald that doesn't in fact have majority support there.

Isn't this secrecy a huge part of the problem when it comes to people's (lack of) confidence? Who decided this was the right way to do things?

Transparency? I've seen solid brick walls with more transparency. 

[WTF]

1 hour ago, Zarley said:

 

Transparency? I've seen solid brick walls with more transparency. 

more dandara bashing ??

[Zarley]

5 minutes ago, WTF said:

more dandara bashing ??

That too. 🤠

[Stu Peters]

1 hour ago, Zarley said:

Isn't this secrecy a huge part of the problem when it comes to people's (lack of) confidence? Who decided this was the right way to do things?

Transparency? I've seen solid brick walls with more transparency. 

That used to be a valid complaint (that CoMin had a block vote) but it’s less true in this administration where political members don’t get any extra pay. So (for example) I have to be convinced voting for a DOI motion is the right thing - I can’t be threatened with a pay cut by going rogue. CoMin is only a third of Keys and a smaller proportion of Tynwald.

[Zarley]

8 minutes ago, Stu Peters said:

That used to be a valid complaint (that CoMin had a block vote) but it’s less true in this administration where political members don’t get any extra pay. So (for example) I have to be convinced voting for a DOI motion is the right thing - I can’t be threatened with a pay cut by going rogue. CoMin is only a third of Keys and a smaller proportion of Tynwald.

Your response says nothing about the enforced secrecy of CoMin.

I suppose that speaks volumes though. 

[Harry Lamb]

11 minutes ago, Stu Peters said:

That used to be a valid complaint (that CoMin had a block vote) but it’s less true in this administration where political members don’t get any extra pay. So (for example) I have to be convinced voting for a DOI motion is the right thing - I can’t be threatened with a pay cut by going rogue. CoMin is only a third of Keys and a smaller proportion of Tynwald.

It's not all about pay, though. Many local politicians are vain creatures of little talent who go into the Keys for an ego boost and love being called 'Minister' or whatever because it feeds their self-importance. It's the same with the masons where an inconsequential shopkeeper can be saluted as a 'worshipful master' and so we find many of these slight, unmeritable men in both institutions.

[joebean]

5 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

But you're the one saying that those things aren't possible without structural changes, not him.  It's hardly Thomas's fault that he's trying to improve things under the current system, rather than wait till that system alters.

There may well be a number of structural changes that would improve matters (electing LegCo would be an obvious one) but there's a long history of reorganisation being used as a substitute for reform and deckchairs being reshuffled without any improvement except in the number and salaries of their occupants.  Look at the way that the number of civil servants DHSC + Manx Care increased by 30% from 2016 with reorganisation.

I don’t accept that RM. I see no evidence of him trying to improve things under the current system. What I have witnessed is a great deal of waffle and process tinkering which have never amounted to much. He has been in Government for a while and the current situation is, to all intent and purposes, the same as when he was first elected. He now talks of mandates that he never properly bothered with before. He is a dull technocrat and is not a reformer or someone with the ability to lead. I’m sick of him doing nothing much apart from being in and out of Government, achieving very little and pretending that he has the answers. Enough now. 

[joebean]

17 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

Edited July 25, 2023 by joebean
Repeat post

[joebean]

17 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by joebean
Repeat post

[joebean]

17 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

But you're the one saying that those things aren't possible without structural changes, not him.  It's hardly Thomas's fault that he's trying to improve things under the current system, rather than wait till that system alters.

There may well be a number of structural changes that would improve matters (electing LegCo would be an obvious one) but there's a long history of reorganisation being used as a substitute for reform and deckchairs being reshuffled without any improvement except in the number and salaries of their occupants.  Look at the way that the number of civil servants DHSC + Manx Care increased by 30% from 2016 with 

Edited July 25, 2023 by joebean
Repeat post

[Zarley]

Yes, enough now! 

[Ringy Rose]

On 7/20/2023 at 5:11 PM, Kopek said:

 

Why would the civil servants at the DoI want to block the Crogga proposal??? Another piece of meat to get their teeth into surely?

 

They wouldn’t want to block Crogga. If it works it’s a cash cow.

But they will want to put safeguards in place to stop Crogga doing a moonlight flit and leaving the taxpayer with the bil if the test wells don’t work.

[Roxanne]

53 minutes ago, Zarley said:

Yes, enough now! 

Already! 

He must be on the same strain as @quilp

[Two-lane]

1 hour ago, Stu Peters said:

CoMin is only a third of Keys and a smaller proportion of Tynwald.

I calculate it to be 37.5% - which is a pretty substantial number.

What is the equivalent figure for Westminster?

[Banker]

21 minutes ago, Two-lane said:

I calculate it to be 37.5% - which is a pretty substantial number.

What is the equivalent figure for Westminster?

Well just over a third but 28% of Tynwald so Comin could be voted down by either body