Chris Thomas MHK sacked from DOI

[quilp]

1 hour ago, Roxanne said:

Already! 

He must be on the same strain as @quilp

How far can you go with this stuff..? 

[Stu Peters]

3 hours ago, Zarley said:

Your response says nothing about the enforced secrecy of CoMin.

I suppose that speaks volumes though. 

Any executive needs to be able to discuss matters confidentially. The idea of complete transparency everywhere all the time is untenable, surely. I think CoMin minutes are a matter of public record after a certain period, but I’m not sure.

2 hours ago, Two-lane said:

I calculate it to be 37.5% - which is a pretty substantial number.

What is the equivalent figure for Westminster?

Unreasonable comparison. Westminster has a larger cabinet but doing much the same kind of job as CoMin, albeit for 60m people with 600 MPs.

[littlebushy]

Westminster has a larger cabinet but doing much the same kind of job as CoMin

 

Excuse me while i get some popcorn and make myself comfortable......

[Numbnuts]

45 minutes ago, Stu Peters said:

 

Unreasonable comparison. Westminster has a larger cabinet but doing much the same kind of job as CoMin, albeit for 60m people with 600 MPs.

I think you might be a bit out with that statement. CoMin is a glorified local council with even less control. 

[Stu Peters]

41 minutes ago, Numbnuts said:

I think you might be a bit out with that statement. CoMin is a glorified local council with even less control. 

Lazy thinking and just wrong. A local UK council has access to top level support and national strategies and infrastructure. But I’m not going to argue the point as it’s clearly a waste of time.

[buncha wankas]

11 hours ago, Stu Peters said:

Any executive needs to be able to discuss matters confidentially. The idea of complete transparency everywhere all the time is untenable, surely. I think CoMin minutes are a matter of public record after a certain period, but I’m not sure.

Unreasonable comparison. Westminster has a larger cabinet but doing much the same kind of job as CoMin, albeit for 60m people with 600 MPs.

67 million people 650 MPs  that’s approx 10 MPs per million, on that basis we only need 1 mhk. 😆 we just copy paste UK albeit a few years behind them so not sure what ‘same kind of job’ you think is going on.

 

An MHK telling a member of public they are wrong without considering or determining facts just shows contempt. 
we are equivalent to a local authority in U.K. and we do have access infrastructure, support and higher knowledge database and resources off island. 

Edited July 25, 2023 by buncha wankas

[joebean]

11 hours ago, Roxanne said:

Already! 

He must be on the same strain as @quilp

No idea what happened there!

[The Duck of Atholl]

9 hours ago, Stu Peters said:

Lazy thinking and just wrong. A local UK council has access to top level support and national strategies and infrastructure. But I’m not going to argue the point as it’s clearly a waste of time.

No it's pretty accurate tbh. 

[Two-lane]

11 hours ago, Stu Peters said:

Unreasonable comparison. Westminster has a larger cabinet but doing much the same kind of job as CoMin, albeit for 60m people with 600 MPs.

I was referring to the percentage. Nearly 40% of the Tynwald vote is a single block vote.

[code99]

There has been a clear pattern with our MHKs. It goes something like this:

• When doorstepping during a GE, most prospective MHKs try to ooze warmth and charm and make promises about the issues that they think residents are most concerned about (I recall one incident when a sitting MHK suggested to a disgruntled Irish constituent to ‘go home’ if she was not happy, but that was an aberration and not the norm);
• Once they have been elected, many of them toe the official line and insist that everybody else is wrong except them. They attempt to brush away criticism or questions they do not like with condescending statements, e.g., : “Health committee’s report ‘full of errors’”, “Lazy thinking and just wrong” and/or “I’m not going to argue the point as it’s clearly a waste of time”, etc, etc.

The Isle of Man is a tiny community and by world standards it’s just a dot in a very big landscape. If our democratically elected peoples’ representatives are not prepared to engage with public in a courteous and respectful manner, it should not be a surprise that the trust in Government and public institutions will fall. Admittedly though, the trend to disliking and not trusting one’s government and appealing for extreme right-wing solution(s) is happening across all Western democracies at the moment - we are living in dangerous political times. The Island needs to get a grip about the threats we collectively face. The behaviours of some high-profile MHKs are not helping.

Edited July 25, 2023 by code99
silly typo!

[joebean]

16 hours ago, Stu Peters said:

Lazy thinking and just wrong. A local UK council has access to top level support and national strategies and infrastructure. But I’m not going to argue the point as it’s clearly a waste of time.

Please remain true to your political origins and don’t become part of the Tynwald Luvvie Club. Not many people outside of the Club bubble hang on the words muttered there or think they are revolving around it. What matters most is what the public see and what the public think. 

[Moghrey Mie]

DOI had this professional report done in 2021.

I presume they are trying to implement some of the recommendations but it all takes time.

https://www.gov.im/media/1373251/iom-doi-final.pdf

[StCatherine]

1 hour ago, Moghrey Mie said:

DOI had this professional report done in 2021.

I presume they are trying to implement some of the recommendations but it all takes time.

https://www.gov.im/media/1373251/iom-doi-final.pdf

They have had more than one beamans report. Never seem to follow recommendations through. But then Tynwald don’t exactly lead by example with Lisvane Et al 

[Stu Peters]

7 hours ago, joebean said:

Please remain true to your political origins and don’t become part of the Tynwald Luvvie Club. Not many people outside of the Club bubble hang on the words muttered there or think they are revolving around it. What matters most is what the public see and what the public think. 

I absolutely remain my own man Joe, as there is nothing I want or need from CoMin or anyone else except the chance to improve things.

The trouble is that discussions in ‘the bubble’ are adult, reasonable and think through the consequences of every decision. Discussions on social media are usually fruitless, childish, vindictive and unreasonable. And when I try to point that out, it merely adds to the feeding frenzy. I can understand why so few Tynwald members engage.

[Yibble]

47 minutes ago, Stu Peters said:

I absolutely remain my own man Joe, as there is nothing I want or need from CoMin or anyone else except the chance to improve things.

The trouble is that discussions in ‘the bubble’ are adult, reasonable and think through the consequences of every decision. Discussions on social media are usually fruitless, childish, vindictive and unreasonable. And when I try to point that out, it merely adds to the feeding frenzy. I can understand why so few Tynwald members engage.

I should probably know better than to post at 00.25 BST and some wine, but:

Stu, that's a really good post. However the question it leaves me with is that if the adult/bubble discussions are so good, why are the outcomes of adult/bubble governance so poor? Where is the gap? Are good decisions being made at governmental level but intentions are somehow being frustrated? If so, by whom, or by what? Or is bubble / Government well-intentioned but just not capable? Or are the Island's problems just not capable of being solved?

[Edit] On re-reading that, I realise it's effectively a set of closed questions. I'm very open to alternative answers, if they help us understand where the intentions - results disconnect lies.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Yibble