Is the Isle of Man Government becoming despotic?

[Banker]

6 hours ago, Ringy Rose said:

The simple truth is that decisions were made quickly and, sometimes, on the hoof. There were numerous occasions when the first the civil servants manning the Covid teams and implementing the rules knew about a decision was when Quayle stood up and announced it at a press conference.

I genuinely don’t know what the inquiry here is hoping to achieve. We didn’t have the scandals relating to dodgy contracts with the likes of Serco because all the key services- the border teams, the vaccination teams- were all re-deployed civil servants.

There are crisis management lessons to be learned, definitely, but a lot of it seems to be about people wanting to blame someone, anyone, for what happened.

Those who demanded tighter lockdowns, who think people wouldn’t have died if we’d all just been locked in our houses for longer, want to blame people for not locking down sooner. Those who think the lockdowns were hugely damaging and unnecessary want to blame people for locking down too soon and for too long.

Totally agree most Covid enquiries are just an excuse for lawyers to get rich and lots to complain about their point of view, think Jersey just did a review in house rather than waste £m plus everyone’s time 

[Cueey Lewis And The News]

Most Jersey residents seem to think that their government did ok over the pandemic. Whereas many IOM residents believe otherwise. Plus Jersey didn’t have an IOM style purge and throw over 50 people in jail for ridiculous Covid “offenses” or badly send in the medical stormtroopers to take over any care homes where people died leading to the care home owner contemplating suicide. We actually need a full public enquiry to get to the root of the excessive implementation of many things by unelected public servants.

Edited November 15, 2023 by Cueey Lewis And The News

[cissolt]

44 minutes ago, Cueey Lewis And The News said:

Most Jersey residents seem to think that their government did ok over the pandemic. Whereas many IOM residents believe otherwise. Plus Jersey didn’t have an IOM style purge and throw over 50 people in jail for ridiculous Covid “offenses” or badly send in the medical stormtroopers to take over any care homes where people died leading to the care home owner contemplating suicide. We actually need a full public enquiry to get to the root of the excessive implementation of many things by unelected public servants.

Don't forget the secret school for civil servants children. Even the police were mad about that particular policy

[Ringy Rose]

11 hours ago, cissolt said:

Don't forget the secret school for civil servants children.

The short-term childcare in the NSC during the early 21 lockdown was just for the children of medical staff. It wasn’t for “civil servants”. Perhaps it should have been extended to the police and fire service, but the point of it was that nurses were missing shifts because they had no childcare, which is a bit of a bad thing in a healthcare crisis.

[Jarndyce]

48 minutes ago, Ringy Rose said:

The short-term childcare in the NSC during the early 21 lockdown was just for the children of medical staff. It wasn’t for “civil servants”. Perhaps it should have been extended to the police and fire service, but the point of it was that nurses were missing shifts because they had no childcare, which is a bit of a bad thing in a healthcare crisis

There you go again - letting the pesky facts get in the way of a good yarn!

[code99]

On 11/14/2023 at 12:02 PM, Ringy Rose said:

The simple truth is that decisions were made quickly and, sometimes, on the hoof. There were numerous occasions when the first the civil servants manning the Covid teams and implementing the rules knew about a decision was when Quayle stood up and announced it at a press conference.

I genuinely don’t know what the inquiry here is hoping to achieve. We didn’t have the scandals relating to dodgy contracts with the likes of Serco because all the key services- the border teams, the vaccination teams- were all re-deployed civil servants.

There are crisis management lessons to be learned, definitely, but a lot of it seems to be about people wanting to blame someone, anyone, for what happened.

Those who demanded tighter lockdowns, who think people wouldn’t have died if we’d all just been locked in our houses for longer, want to blame people for not locking down sooner. Those who think the lockdowns were hugely damaging and unnecessary want to blame people for locking down too soon and for too long.

Thank you for the feedback. I totally understand your perspective.

However, my view is that there are numerous outstanding questions that the IOM public has the right to have answers to, questions such as: why were some of the police enforcement actions so disproportionate and irrational? why were the Abbotswood people subjected to an appalling and possibly even illegal treatment by the Government's officials? The IOMG could have heeded the example of the Faroe Islands - instead of shutting their borders to returning residents the Faroe Islands implemented a testing regime on arrival followed by the individuals’ self-testing/ self-isolating at their own homes. What Dr Glover was proposing would (potentially) have been a more effective method for identifying Covid cases and limiting the spread of the virus. The concerns raised by Dr Ranson were not only about the timing and duration of the lockdowns but were also related to the delay in vaccination programme roll-out; etc, etc.

Putting the above issues to one side, there is a bigger picture at stake here – the issue of the IOMG promising ‘openness and transparency’ and doing the opposite, i.e., the IOMG seems to be doing all it can to conceal as many things as it can under the proverbial carpet. Recently, hardly a day has gone by without some new embarrassment(s) for the Government. E.g., the 74-page PAC report on the Liverpool Landing Stage implies not just one wrong decision, not just one person at fault but a continuous stream of ineptness over several years. And this project is not finished yet. The fiasco with the Airport Celebrity Deputy Director is a sad indictment of how this issue is being poorly handled. Inquires or no Inquiries, no one in the IOMG seems capable of knowing when they don’t know what they need to know and engaging the relevant expertise in a timely manner; no one seems capable of handling any substantial/ complex issues or projects. This ‘third division’ approach to issues looks like it is going to be an ongoing problem for the Island - perhaps the ultimate plan is to amalgamate the IOM into the UK and hand someone else the responsibility? Given that nearly 20% of the Island’s workers are Government employees, that outcome would be a metaphorical ‘death knell’ for a significant swathe of the IOM’s population, hopefully it does not ever come to that!  

[ricardo]

17 hours ago, code99 said:

Thank you for the feedback. I totally understand your perspective.

However, my view is that there are numerous outstanding questions that the IOM public has the right to have answers to, questions such as: why were some of the police enforcement actions so disproportionate and irrational? why were the Abbotswood people subjected to an appalling and possibly even illegal treatment by the Government's officials? The IOMG could have heeded the example of the Faroe Islands - instead of shutting their borders to returning residents the Faroe Islands implemented a testing regime on arrival followed by the individuals’ self-testing/ self-isolating at their own homes. What Dr Glover was proposing would (potentially) have been a more effective method for identifying Covid cases and limiting the spread of the virus. The concerns raised by Dr Ranson were not only about the timing and duration of the lockdowns but were also related to the delay in vaccination programme roll-out; etc, etc.

Putting the above issues to one side, there is a bigger picture at stake here – the issue of the IOMG promising ‘openness and transparency’ and doing the opposite, i.e., the IOMG seems to be doing all it can to conceal as many things as it can under the proverbial carpet. Recently, hardly a day has gone by without some new embarrassment(s) for the Government. E.g., the 74-page PAC report on the Liverpool Landing Stage implies not just one wrong decision, not just one person at fault but a continuous stream of ineptness over several years. And this project is not finished yet. The fiasco with the Airport Celebrity Deputy Director is a sad indictment of how this issue is being poorly handled. Inquires or no Inquiries, no one in the IOMG seems capable of knowing when they don’t know what they need to know and engaging the relevant expertise in a timely manner; no one seems capable of handling any substantial/ complex issues or projects. This ‘third division’ approach to issues looks like it is going to be an ongoing problem for the Island - perhaps the ultimate plan is to amalgamate the IOM into the UK and hand someone else the responsibility? Given that nearly 20% of the Island’s workers are Government employees, that outcome would be a metaphorical ‘death knell’ for a significant swathe of the IOM’s population, hopefully it does not ever come to that!  

One answer is that all governments were heavily invested in scaring us with the ‘deadly covid’ virus - or ‘rebranded ‘flu’ if you look at the WHO statistics above. So IoMG ‘putting n a show’, with motorcycle outriders escorting cruise passenger returnees and minor rule-breakers being publicly jailed served the governmental agenda nicely. And if several elderly patients at a care-home died earlier than they might have, the deadly virus could neatly be blamed.

Dr Suneel Dhand has practiced medicine in the US for 10 years, has 143 thousand followers on Twitter, and says the below:

 

[Two-lane]

"as a Doctor with knowledge, I DON'T trust any other doctor or the medical system"

Sounds like me after a couple of beers - I'm right and the rest of the world is wrong.

 

[Ringy Rose]

20 hours ago, code99 said:

why were the Abbotswood people subjected to an appalling and possibly even illegal treatment by the Government's officials? The IOMG could have heeded the example of the Faroe Islands - instead of shutting their borders to returning residents the Faroe Islands implemented a testing regime on arrival followed by the individuals’ self-testing/ self-isolating at their own homes. What Dr Glover was proposing would (potentially) have been a more effective method for identifying Covid cases and limiting the spread of the virus. The concerns raised by Dr Ranson were not only about the timing and duration of the lockdowns but were also related to the delay in vaccination programme roll-out; etc, etc.

Lots to unpack there.

Abbotswood, I’ve heard quite a bit about what happened in there. It’ll be interesting how much makes its way into the report.

As for the border closures, Ranson was- apparently- demanding a full closure sooner than it happened. Yet you’re saying that we shouldn’t have done a full closure when we did, we could have done arrival testing. Who’s to say who was right?

The Christmas 20 outbreak came about because someone travelled here having tested negative on arrival x2, developed Covid after their arrival tests (due to the incubation period), and then went into the community after their 14-day isolation still spreading Covid.

There are questions for government. I’d like to see more scrutiny of who DfE were handing “economic key worker” exemptions to. But, on the other hand, I’d also like Steam Packet senior management (especially HR) to face scrutiny about what THEY knew about the island’s restrictions. 

But having said that I still don’t see the point of a hugely expensive inquiry.

 

[asitis]

On 11/16/2023 at 5:33 PM, code99 said:

What Dr Glover was proposing

Ahh yes, but she hadn't run it by Professor Ashford !

[Johnny F]

Brunner covid review due out tomorrow......cost £1.56M

 

[Dirty Buggane]

Bargain 

[woolley]

Total waste of taxpayers' money just like the one in the UK.

[Hocus Pocus]

UK inquiry is not a waste of time as Lady Hallet has used her legal powers to collect evidence without fear or favour. UK is getting to the inconvenient truths.

IOMG chose a limp review without legal powers to oblige proper disclosure....remember how Lawrie Hooper's DHSC didn't comply with legal obligations to disclose key Covid records leading to punitive damages award in Ranson. For £1.4m Brunner will say lots of co-operation from IOMG, everyone worked hard in difficult circumstances, a few inevitable mistakes. But nothing to see here except my invoice for settlement. Ignore the fact that massive swathes of evidence (Magson, Ashford and Ranson emails (btw Magson used personal email account to do things off grid) was destroyed by IOMG.

[Omobono]

2 hours ago, Hocus Pocus said:

UK inquiry is not a waste of time as Lady Hallet has used her legal powers to collect evidence without fear or favour. UK is getting to the inconvenient truths.

IOMG chose a limp review without legal powers to oblige proper disclosure....remember how Lawrie Hooper's DHSC didn't comply with legal obligations to disclose key Covid records leading to punitive damages award in Ranson. For £1.4m Brunner will say lots of co-operation from IOMG, everyone worked hard in difficult circumstances, a few inevitable mistakes. But nothing to see here except my invoice for settlement. Ignore the fact that massive swathes of evidence (Magson, Ashford and Ranson emails (btw Magson used personal email account to do things off grid) was destroyed by IOMG.

smells like a whitewash , but I will wait and see whet it says in the report , no doubt a Tynwald debate will take place sometime before the next election