The emotional and financial cost of doing business on the Isle of Man

[jackwhite]

One thing I do is help new business start ups in the hospitality space.

I've handled a few on the Isle of Man. 

Obviously part of my remit is to be completely honest with clients when they ask me questions. So when I'm asked whether it's a good idea for them to open a place here, as opposed to doing it somewhere else, I honestly can't say yes.

Why is that?

The following:

1. Red tape. So much of it. Planning is slow and disjointed. You have to advertise something for a period before it goes to approval. Even after that someone can still object, despite being able to object in that original time frame. Licensing the same. The authorities, in general, are good. But the court sits once a month, when things can change in this game weekly, daily sometimes. Lack of guidance around this too. Unless you know people, it's hard to get any advice. Even then, those long experienced in the trade here, often have a different idea from the actual courts themselves. Even professionals we've hired are often surprised by some of the feedback from officials.

2. Personal opinion here. A lot of people on the Isle of Man are resistant to change. Mostly local people who just don't like it. Now that's probably less than half the population, possibly considerably more, but they're certainly very vocal on socials and such like to express their unhappiness. Most other areas I've worked in, it's only a very small minority who are not open to some sort of nice facility in their area, even if they aren't going to necessarily use it themselves. 

3. 'We're the only show in town' arrogance. Long established businesses here that think they can speak to people however they like and do whatever they want. We've looked at premises and pointed things out that the client would need resolved before moving in, to literally be accused, directly, of 'moaning' by one' well known agent, in one of his first emails to the client. Then there's some contractors, who are becoming way too complacent when it comes quoting for work. Many don't show up to quote. Many don't do anything after a quote. I can count on one hand the ones I'd trust to do something and follow through to the end. Whilst there may be a plentiful supply of work, there's no guarantee that will continue forever. If it dries up, these contractors will have burned any bridges they may have had. Anything I do in an area I haven't worked before (fewer and further between these days) in the UK I try out the local market beforehand. Generally this produces decent results. It's more good than bad. If we can't, I have people I can bring in from other cities who will do the work quickly and efficiently.

Now that's before we even take into account the problems that are atypical (the above ones may well fall into the same category) of living on an island. Notably things like limited market space, additional costs in getting items etc. 

On all of the above, number 2 could probably be lived with by most people. When advising people on what would be a stress free life though, there are many things out there considerably easier and more lucrative. 

All of the above is not to say there aren't many great things about the Isle of Man and having a business here. At this moment in time though, I do think the many good things are outweighed by the sheer heft of the bad. Remove one of item 1 or 3, particularly item 1, then it becomes a much more attractive place to do business.

 

[woolley]

Blimey. Are you in the right job?

[jackwhite]

9 minutes ago, woolley said:

Blimey. Are you in the right job?

Well I'm still being polite to you, so yeah I think so 😉

It's simply my observations of local life compared to doing business elsewhere. 

We're trying to sell ourselves to the outside world as a great place to live and do business. 

I'm simply expressing my views, having lived here for over a decade, of what we have to change in order to make that a reality.

[thommo2010]

What's happening with the whiskey bar you were helping set up? I heard a few people talking about it but not seen anything, hopefully it is still going ahead

[littlebushy]

Bladerunner will be proud of you!

[jackwhite]

7 minutes ago, thommo2010 said:

What's happening with the whiskey bar you were helping set up? I heard a few people talking about it but not seen anything, hopefully it is still going ahead

Just being finished off. 

They're hoping to be open middle of next month.

[The Phantom]

51 minutes ago, jackwhite said:

One thing I do is help new business start ups in the hospitality space.

I've handled a few on the Isle of Man. 

Obviously part of my remit is to be completely honest with clients when they ask me questions. So when I'm asked whether it's a good idea for them to open a place here, as opposed to doing it somewhere else, I honestly can't say yes.

Why is that?

The following:

1. Red tape. So much of it. Planning is slow and disjointed. You have to advertise something for a period before it goes to approval. Even after that someone can still object, despite being able to object in that original time frame. Licensing the same. The authorities, in general, are good. But the court sits once a month, when things can change in this game weekly, daily sometimes. Lack of guidance around this too. Unless you know people, it's hard to get any advice. Even then, those long experienced in the trade here, often have a different idea from the actual courts themselves. Even professionals we've hired are often surprised by some of the feedback from officials.

2. Personal opinion here. A lot of people on the Isle of Man are resistant to change. Mostly local people who just don't like it. Now that's probably less than half the population, possibly considerably more, but they're certainly very vocal on socials and such like to express their unhappiness. Most other areas I've worked in, it's only a very small minority who are not open to some sort of nice facility in their area, even if they aren't going to necessarily use it themselves. 

3. 'We're the only show in town' arrogance. Long established businesses here that think they can speak to people however they like and do whatever they want. We've looked at premises and pointed things out that the client would need resolved before moving in, to literally be accused, directly, of 'moaning' by one' well known agent, in one of his first emails to the client. Then there's some contractors, who are becoming way too complacent when it comes quoting for work. Many don't show up to quote. Many don't do anything after a quote. I can count on one hand the ones I'd trust to do something and follow through to the end. Whilst there may be a plentiful supply of work, there's no guarantee that will continue forever. If it dries up, these contractors will have burned any bridges they may have had. Anything I do in an area I haven't worked before (fewer and further between these days) in the UK I try out the local market beforehand. Generally this produces decent results. It's more good than bad. If we can't, I have people I can bring in from other cities who will do the work quickly and efficiently.

Now that's before we even take into account the problems that are atypical (the above ones may well fall into the same category) of living on an island. Notably things like limited market space, additional costs in getting items etc. 

On all of the above, number 2 could probably be lived with by most people. When advising people on what would be a stress free life though, there are many things out there considerably easier and more lucrative. 

All of the above is not to say there aren't many great things about the Isle of Man and having a business here. At this moment in time though, I do think the many good things are outweighed by the sheer heft of the bad. Remove one of item 1 or 3, particularly item 1, then it becomes a much more attractive place to do business.

 

Sounds about right for any business over here to be honest nowadays.  It has only been like this for the last 10 years or so.  Prior to that like our alleged USP, we were genuinely flexible, agile, helpful etc.   However you'd need to add FSA regulation to point one if there is any kind of financial angle to the business, but their response and lack of guidance/advice sounds exactly the same as the issues you encounter for licensing and planning. 

[Sheldon]

1 minute ago, The Phantom said:

FSA regulation... response and lack of guidance/advice...

In fairness, the FSA are an absolute delight to deal with compared to their equivalents in the Far and Middle East. And the less said about the US the better.

[The Phantom]

11 minutes ago, Sheldon said:

In fairness, the FSA are an absolute delight to deal with compared to their equivalents in the Far and Middle East. And the less said about the US the better.

Yeah but there needs to be a really good reason to do significant stuff here on a small island, rather than in the US or Middle East, where there are already obvious and significant markets and infrastructure. 

I love what the SEC are currently doing with Crypto though, it's hilarious.  Taking Coinbase to court, whilst at the same time using them to clear up the FTX mess. 

 

[woolley]

1 hour ago, jackwhite said:

Well I'm still being polite to you, so yeah I think so 😉

It's simply my observations of local life compared to doing business elsewhere. 

We're trying to sell ourselves to the outside world as a great place to live and do business. 

I'm simply expressing my views, having lived here for over a decade, of what we have to change in order to make that a reality.

I wasn't trying to be smart. It just strikes me that it must be very wearing to be promoting/assisting start-ups on the one hand while having all of those reservations. Isn't it the case everywhere now though, and not just on the Island? Red tape is so ridiculously tiresome. We were only talking about data protection last week weren't we? A complete waste of time and an irrelevance for most businesses, but still you have to pay the cost and bow down before the man. Too many people with the metaphorical clipboard and too few actually doing anything useful.

[jackwhite]

3 minutes ago, woolley said:

I wasn't trying to be smart. It just strikes me that it must be very wearing to be promoting/assisting start-ups on the one hand while having all of those reservations. Isn't it the case everywhere now though, and not just on the Island? Red tape is so ridiculously tiresome. We were only talking about data protection last week weren't we? A complete waste of time and an irrelevance for most businesses, but still you have to pay the cost and bow down before the man. Too many people with the metaphorical clipboard and too few actually doing anything useful.

I didn't think you were! I didn't really understand the question to be honest.

The point I was trying to make, perhaps not concisely, is that it's so much more here. 

This is the country I choose to live in. It's because it has some very good things going for it. It's likely why I get asked often about people setting up businesses here, as it usually follows my answer to the question "why do you live on the Isle of Man". 

The red tape has always been an issue. The new licensing regime was supposed to make it easier. It's actually done the opposite. I've been told this is due to it being started by someone who left halfway into the project, so they just took the old act, to what had been done, and did a patchwork job with it. 

Since I work alone, I guess the above post is maybe just cathartic in response to what have always been issues and, now, what seems to be coming down the pipe with IOMG. Despite the reservations of many people on here, I didn't think many of the ideas in the 'Island Plan' were bad. I guess I just didn't realise that the current regime wouldn't have a clue how to make them a reality, which appears to be the case. 

As I've said before, there are many people who like the idea of living here. I just think they need to be aware of the reality of it, both good and bad, before they actually start spending significant amounts of money in doing so. 

[offshoremanxman]

2 hours ago, The Phantom said:

Sounds about right for any business over here to be honest nowadays.  It has only been like this for the last 10 years or so.  Prior to that like our alleged USP, we were genuinely flexible, agile, helpful etc.   However you'd need to add FSA regulation to point one if there is any kind of financial angle to the business, but their response and lack of guidance/advice sounds exactly the same as the issues you encounter for licensing and planning. 

Agreed it’s just called living in the IOM. I had a meeting with one furious reasonably new resident a few months back who basically suggested that this is the worst place they’d ever tried to set up a business in and that they’d probably be leaving soon before this place sucked all their cash. 

[The Phantom]

2 hours ago, woolley said:

Red tape is so ridiculously tiresome. We were only talking about data protection last week weren't we? A complete waste of time and an irrelevance for most businesses, but still you have to pay the cost and bow down before the man. Too many people with the metaphorical clipboard and too few actually doing anything useful.

Funnily enough, some of the most compelling business uses of AI I've seen recently are to negotiate that red tape! 

I know a guy who is a specialist welder. He had to do a small job for Govt and they demanded his H&S statement. This would have taken longer to do than the actual job. He then got ChatGP on the case. It wrote up his policy in a few mins! 

Ironic that it's great at solving hurdles we have put in the way of ourselves. 

[Blade Runner]

4 hours ago, jackwhite said:

One thing I do is help new business start ups in the hospitality space.

I've handled a few on the Isle of Man. 

Obviously part of my remit is to be completely honest with clients when they ask me questions. So when I'm asked whether it's a good idea for them to open a place here, as opposed to doing it somewhere else, I honestly can't say yes.

Why is that?

The following:

1. Red tape. So much of it. Planning is slow and disjointed. You have to advertise something for a period before it goes to approval. Even after that someone can still object, despite being able to object in that original time frame. Licensing the same. The authorities, in general, are good. But the court sits once a month, when things can change in this game weekly, daily sometimes. Lack of guidance around this too. Unless you know people, it's hard to get any advice. Even then, those long experienced in the trade here, often have a different idea from the actual courts themselves. Even professionals we've hired are often surprised by some of the feedback from officials.

2. Personal opinion here. A lot of people on the Isle of Man are resistant to change. Mostly local people who just don't like it. Now that's probably less than half the population, possibly considerably more, but they're certainly very vocal on socials and such like to express their unhappiness. Most other areas I've worked in, it's only a very small minority who are not open to some sort of nice facility in their area, even if they aren't going to necessarily use it themselves. 

3. 'We're the only show in town' arrogance. Long established businesses here that think they can speak to people however they like and do whatever they want. We've looked at premises and pointed things out that the client would need resolved before moving in, to literally be accused, directly, of 'moaning' by one' well known agent, in one of his first emails to the client. Then there's some contractors, who are becoming way too complacent when it comes quoting for work. Many don't show up to quote. Many don't do anything after a quote. I can count on one hand the ones I'd trust to do something and follow through to the end. Whilst there may be a plentiful supply of work, there's no guarantee that will continue forever. If it dries up, these contractors will have burned any bridges they may have had. Anything I do in an area I haven't worked before (fewer and further between these days) in the UK I try out the local market beforehand. Generally this produces decent results. It's more good than bad. If we can't, I have people I can bring in from other cities who will do the work quickly and efficiently.

Now that's before we even take into account the problems that are atypical (the above ones may well fall into the same category) of living on an island. Notably things like limited market space, additional costs in getting items etc. 

On all of the above, number 2 could probably be lived with by most people. When advising people on what would be a stress free life though, there are many things out there considerably easier and more lucrative. 

All of the above is not to say there aren't many great things about the Isle of Man and having a business here. At this moment in time though, I do think the many good things are outweighed by the sheer heft of the bad. Remove one of item 1 or 3, particularly item 1, then it becomes a much more attractive place to do business.

 

This is why I just gave up and moved to the mainland.

You cant win with the "Blob"

Best thing I did and I have not looked back, small business success is welcomed here, not shot down by Crabs.

I used to buy sh1t vans and second hand cars so it looked like I was not doing that well on the rock to stop the general Manx Crabs and the CS Crabs

[Kopek]

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\wdhy do we need financial regulations? Is it possibly because 'We' will try to take the piss without them???