Gladys Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, John Wright said: Second paragraph applies to all 6 cases What I meant was, I get the new broom possibility. But, in the cases of begging, have there been beggars here who were just quietly put back on the boat? We would have heard if there had been prior to these five people; that is the kind of news that travels quite quickly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxanne Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 28 minutes ago, John Wright said: Not sure he was begging.paid the fare over to see a friend, he says. Then didn’t have the fare back. My suspicion is that there’s a new broom and that in the past they’d just have been put on the boat with no action. You’re probably right. Sleeping outside the terminal isn’t anything new. Not having money for the fare probably isn’t that uncommon either. But, why just not let the poor bugger get on the boat? Surely a £35 fare is cheaper than taking him though legal process? 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forestboy Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 37 minutes ago, John Wright said: Not sure he was begging.paid the fare over to see a friend, he says. Then didn’t have the fare back. My suspicion is that there’s a new broom and that in the past they’d just have been put on the boat with no action. Years ago put on boat with Social Services voucher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 25 minutes ago, Gladys said: What I meant was, I get the new broom possibility. But, in the cases of begging, have there been beggars here who were just quietly put back on the boat? We would have heard if there had been prior to these five people; that is the kind of news that travels quite quickly. Not sure we would if there was no arrest, no prosecution, no request for translators. 24 minutes ago, Roxanne said: You’re probably right. Sleeping outside the terminal isn’t anything new. Not having money for the fare probably isn’t that uncommon either. But, why just not let the poor bugger get on the boat? Surely a £35 fare is cheaper than taking him though legal process? Totally agree. There’s some message sending going on. used to be said the Island had never had gypsies on Island. In fact, for nearly 70 years, maybe more, there was a gypsy camp, with horses and hooped caravans, on Douglas Head below MR. There was even a gypsy king. Newspaper reports tell him drowning in the harbour on his way home from British to Head Road. Tommy and his family went bricks & mortar and into scrap metal and had a garage behind the Sefton in the 60’s, 70,s, 80’s, 90’s 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thommo2010 Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 17 minutes ago, Roxanne said: You’re probably right. Sleeping outside the terminal isn’t anything new. Not having money for the fare probably isn’t that uncommon either. But, why just not let the poor bugger get on the boat? Surely a £35 fare is cheaper than taking him though legal process? Probably because he didn't have money for the fare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxanne Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 Just now, thommo2010 said: Probably because he didn't have money for the fare Thommo….🤦♀️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, thommo2010 said: Probably because he didn't have money for the fare Roxanne is contrasting the cost of the fare to Treasury or Police to the cost of arrest, processing, charging, taking to court, duty advocate, taking to Jurby, accommodating and feeding in Jurby, taking from Jurby to Sea Terminal and still paying his fare off Island. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 It would be much simpler if when found guilty they could waive their right of appeal in exchange for a boat ticket. Mind you, they might view time in the Jurby Hilton four square and all found as a bit of a result! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbnuts Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 23 minutes ago, Roxanne said: You’re probably right. Sleeping outside the terminal isn’t anything new. Not having money for the fare probably isn’t that uncommon either. But, why just not let the poor bugger get on the boat? Surely a £35 fare is cheaper than taking him though legal process? I agree , plus of course how much it costs to keep in at Jurby. Wonder if this guy was in UK illegally too. If so a call to UK immigration and met of the boat would do it I would have thought . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thommo2010 Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, John Wright said: Roxanne is contrasting the cost of the fare to Treasury or Police to the cost of arrest, processing, charging, taking to court, duty advocate, taking to Jurby, accommodating and feeding in Jurby, taking from Jurby to Sea Terminal and still paying his fare off Island. As you have pointed out above John can't make them leave, maybe years ago they would have been put on the boat no fuss but in this day and age of lawsuits etc then everything needs to be done by the book. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 1 minute ago, P.K. said: It would be much simpler if when found guilty they could waive their right of appeal in exchange for a boat ticket. Mind you, they might view time in the Jurby Hilton four square and all found as a bit of a result! They’ve tried that. It was the usual thing after a birching sentence. It’s been found to be irregular, highly irregular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, thommo2010 said: As you have pointed out above John can't make them leave, maybe years ago they would have been put on the boat no fuss but in this day and age of lawsuits etc then everything needs to be done by the book. Yes, but, as you and I both know, they could be arrested and offered the choice of prosecution or leave. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 6 minutes ago, John Wright said: They’ve tried that. It was the usual thing after a birching sentence. It’s been found to be irregular, highly irregular. So what? Is this an independent legislature or what? A Customs Officer was complicit in the "Hamilton Jet minus VAT" farrago which I thought was "highly irregular" but it didn't stop them doing it how many times? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, P.K. said: So what? Is this an independent legislature or what? A Customs Officer was complicit in the "Hamilton Jet minus VAT" farrago which I thought was "highly irregular" but it didn't stop them doing it how many times? Hamilton Jet was legal and regular and done under identical UK legislation. The only difference between UK and IoM was that it might take 6 months to get the VAT refund. IoM did it in one day. You can’t take away, or make, or accept a waiver of, a right of appeal in criminal proceedings, independent legislature or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxanne Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 16 minutes ago, thommo2010 said: As you have pointed out above John can't make them leave, maybe years ago they would have been put on the boat no fuss but in this day and age of lawsuits etc then everything needs to be done by the book. Don’t you think him outside in a sleeping bag collecting money for his fare was a pretty good indication of him wanting to leave? And yes, as John has pointed out, my point was that the cost of just allowing him on would have been far less than due process. We’re paying for it either way Are common sense and discretion not allowed any more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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