Roger Mexico Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 3 hours ago, Numbnuts said: Wonder if this guy was in UK illegally too. If so a call to UK immigration and met of the boat would do it I would have thought . Well according to Manx Radio, he was called Peter Thomas Woosey, so maybe not. But given they held him for two nights, they would have had at least a day to check any credentials and any immigration or whatever offences. I wonder also whether they picked him up thinking whether he had been committing other offences (eg drug running) and his story didn't add up. The fact they imposed an exclusion order rather suggests this and they can't do that on someone who hasn't been convicted of an offence, no matter how archaic-sounding. Of course, as John pointed out such an order isn't legally enforceable until 28 days and the possibility of appeal have passed, but it's legal to 'help' someone off the Island. In this case such help would be gratefully accepted and return within the appeal period unlikely. But he was also possibly unlucky. Normally he might have just been 'dearrested' and put on the morning boat, but because the Romanians were also being dealt with (even though they were repeat offenders) it might be felt the authorities should also crack down in this case. Usually when the Vagrancy Act has been used in the past it's when other offences have happened as well. Though the guy already has a criminal record for similar offences, so that may also have been a factor. 3 hours ago, thommo2010 said: As you have pointed out above John can't make them leave, maybe years ago they would have been put on the boat no fuss but in this day and age of lawsuits etc then everything needs to be done by the book. This isn't true because the 'putting on the boat' was what was done these very Romanians earlier this month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 8 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: Well according to Manx Radio, he was called Peter Thomas Woosey, so maybe not. But given they held him for two nights, they would have had at least a day to check any credentials and any immigration or whatever offences. I wonder also whether they picked him up thinking whether he had been committing other offences (eg drug running) and his story didn't add up. The fact they imposed an exclusion order rather suggests this and they can't do that on someone who hasn't been convicted of an offence, no matter how archaic-sounding. Of course, as John pointed out such an order isn't legally enforceable until 28 days and the possibility of appeal have passed, but it's legal to 'help' someone off the Island. In this case such help would be gratefully accepted and return within the appeal period unlikely. But he was also possibly unlucky. Normally he might have just been 'dearrested' and put on the morning boat, but because the Romanians were also being dealt with (even though they were repeat offenders) it might be felt the authorities should also crack down in this case. Usually when the Vagrancy Act has been used in the past it's when other offences have happened as well. Though the guy already has a criminal record for similar offences, so that may also have been a factor. This isn't true because the 'putting on the boat' was what was done these very Romanians earlier this month. He clearly was English ( or Welsh ). It’s not clear that the Romanians were illegal. After all they can come to UK IoM for up to 180 days in any rolling 365 period. Although they mustn’t work and must be self supporting. Exclusion orders are exclusively judicial power, not administrative. I suspect it was his previous that meant he was charged. Nothing else. And it’s true. You can’t be put on the boat. You can be taken there, a ticket bought, you can be encouraged to go. But you can’t be made to. The 5/7 event was, I believe, the Romanians buying their own tickets and voluntarily boarding after being given the choice of a caution or leave voluntarily. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 5 minutes ago, John Wright said: And it’s true. You can’t be put on the boat. You can be taken there, a ticket bought, you can be encouraged to go. But you can’t be made to. The 5/7 event was, I believe, the Romanians buying their own tickets and voluntarily boarding after being given the choice of a caution or leave voluntarily. Being taken there, a ticket bought and encouraged to go, was sort of what I meant (and I think thommo meant) about being 'put on the boat'. Of course you can't be forced on the boat, but someone with no connections or means of support here is likely to take the option. And if they have any immediate financial resources, they may well be expected to contribute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thommo2010 Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 16 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: Being taken there, a ticket bought and encouraged to go, was sort of what I meant (and I think thommo meant) about being 'put on the boat'. Of course you can't be forced on the boat, but someone with no connections or means of support here is likely to take the option. And if they have any immediate financial resources, they may well be expected to contribute. He came over to see a "friend" why didn't this friend help him out? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, thommo2010 said: He came over to see a "friend" why didn't this friend help him out? they moved to jurby ?? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passing Time Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 8 hours ago, Roxanne said: You’re probably right. Sleeping outside the terminal isn’t anything new. Not having money for the fare probably isn’t that uncommon either. But, why just not let the poor bugger get on the boat? Surely a £35 fare is cheaper than taking him though legal process? Plod have got to get their arrest numbers somewhere... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passing Time Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 7 hours ago, John Wright said: Yes, but, as you and I both know, they could be arrested and offered the choice of prosecution or leave. that won't happen. Think of the arrest figures... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thommo2010 Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 13 minutes ago, Passing Time said: Plod have got to get their arrest numbers somewhere... Yeah been a bit low this year, need to get them up to get that bonus for the Christmas party 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 5 hours ago, thommo2010 said: Well seemed to be enough evidence to have him convicted at court. So, how's the new CC settling in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 25 minutes ago, Passing Time said: that won't happen. Think of the arrest figures... What I suggested would appear in the detection, arrest and clear up figures. Win, win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 I'll never ever understand how being homeless is a crime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: I'll never ever understand how being homeless is a crime. It isn’t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darenisepic Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 1 minute ago, TheTeapot said: I'll never ever understand how being homeless is a crime. If they can afford a boat ticket to get here, you have to consider that it's premeditated. With homeless comes crime and also drug use. It is very sad for the genuine ones that ended up homeless by no fault of their own but many are not genuine or are illegal immigrants. Asylum is sought in the very next safe country and not crossing many countries to reach the one where they believe the streets are paved with gold. Visit many places across and you will see it is pretty bad we really don't want our island saturated like say Blackpool do we? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 11 minutes ago, John Wright said: It isn’t Ah, yes, sorry, the term is 'vagrancy', a person who does not have a home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 1 minute ago, TheTeapot said: Ah, yes, sorry, the term is 'vagrancy', a person who does not have a home. Vagrancy and homelessness are different. Vagrancy is being on the street with no means of support. Homeless people can and do have means of support, even somewhere to stay in some cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.