Beggars in Strand Street

[Kopek]

Naiivety? In south eastern Europe there is a great deal of prejudice and bigotry of the Romani people, the Roma, or perhaps you would like to refer to them as Gypsies are a different background and culture to what we might call the 'Caucasian' people of these countries.

Are they and in consequence, we, right to categorise these people as some one to be looked down upon because their skin is more 'swarthy' than others?  Someone who must be stamped down on in the IOM?

Do we have the right to categorise these people, without knowing their background as undesirables?

True, there have been many documentaries that every Merc stolen in the Uk ends up in Romania or Bulgaria! But the people named in our cases have not been Roma names and that is probably true of the majority of trafficking from that area, we should not treat them as different to, say a belgian, being caught begging.

[Passing Time]

37 minutes ago, Kopek said:

Naiivety? In south eastern Europe there is a great deal of prejudice and bigotry of the Romani people, the Roma, or perhaps you would like to refer to them as Gypsies are a different background and culture to what we might call the 'Caucasian' people of these countries.

Are they and in consequence, we, right to categorise these people as some one to be looked down upon because their skin is more 'swarthy' than others?  Someone who must be stamped down on in the IOM?

Do we have the right to categorise these people, without knowing their background as undesirables?

True, there have been many documentaries that every Merc stolen in the Uk ends up in Romania or Bulgaria! But the people named in our cases have not been Roma names and that is probably true of the majority of trafficking from that area, we should not treat them as different to, say a belgian, being caught begging.

Stupidity at its best

[Happier diner]

7 hours ago, Kopek said:

Naiivety? In south eastern Europe there is a great deal of prejudice and bigotry of the Romani people, the Roma, or perhaps you would like to refer to them as Gypsies are a different background and culture to what we might call the 'Caucasian' people of these countries.

Are they and in consequence, we, right to categorise these people as some one to be looked down upon because their skin is more 'swarthy' than others?  Someone who must be stamped down on in the IOM?

Do we have the right to categorise these people, without knowing their background as undesirables?

True, there have been many documentaries that every Merc stolen in the Uk ends up in Romania or Bulgaria! But the people named in our cases have not been Roma names and that is probably true of the majority of trafficking from that area, we should not treat them as different to, say a belgian, being caught begging.

I have never seen a Belgian begging. It's nothing to do with their race, it's about what they do. If the Romanians don't want to be associated with organised crime and begging, they need to change their behaviour instead of expecting people to change their perceptions.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Happier diner

[display name]

10 hours ago, Kopek said:

We don't know that these Romanians were trafficked or exploited, they be 'entrepreneurs', or desperate ?

They were desperate to get away from a crumbling society,where theft and begging is common place and any money that's about is very much needed for basic foods to survive. Or maybe they were expanding their franchise after begging  for money to spend on boat tickets.

Personally,I'd chuck them in the sea,somewhere in the Mediterranean. Don't want to be accused of pushing them out into the cold 🙂

[Holte End]

16 minutes ago, display name said:

They were desperate to get away from a crumbling society,

I didn't think they got as far as Ramsey.

[mollag]

Just for clarity, are Romani /Romany and Romanian the same thing?

Are people who are in need, who beg and people not in need but beg as an earning method the same thing?

It seems the topic bounces between different groupings with common titles.

IMHO we have opportunist professional people, working folks emotional feelings with the aim of earning money,

Nationality or "criminal gang roots" are distractions from the root problem,

The IOM has been identified as an untapped resouce and the scouts are investigating to see how lucrative "Begging" would be.

May I refer to "The man with the twisted lip" a Sherlock Holmes story of a professional beggar , nowt new out there peeps. 🙄

[Happier diner]

44 minutes ago, Holte End said:

I didn't think they got as far as Ramsey.

I thought he was talking about Ramsey.

[Happier diner]

11 hours ago, Kopek said:

We don't know that these Romanians were trafficked or exploited, they be 'entrepreneurs', or desperate ? Of course I didn't see them, they may have been in Armani suits or rags or worse still, nylon football togs!!!

Either way , no need to hound the poor buggers in law or on here?

Probably trafficked and exploited as you say. By other Romanians.

I'm not sure you are going to convince anyone or here to sympathise with them. Sorry. 

[Gladys]

26 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Probably trafficked and exploited as you say. By other Romanians.

I'm not sure you are going to convince anyone or here to sympathise with them. Sorry. 

Not sure that is the case. 

[Ghost Ship]

On 7/28/2023 at 9:12 AM, John Wright said:

... You can’t take away, or make, or accept a waiver of, a right of appeal in criminal proceedings, independent legislature or not.

Out of interest, why not?  What would prevent such an offer being made?  (ie here's a boat ticket in exchange for your right to appeal)

What would prevent Tynwald from enacting such a provision?

[John Wright]

9 minutes ago, Ghost Ship said:

Out of interest, why not?  What would prevent such an offer being made?  (ie here's a boat ticket in exchange for your right to appeal)

What would prevent Tynwald from enacting such a provision?

Because it would be struck down by the Manx Courts, Privy Council or ECtHR.

Think about it. The law has to be consistent. So the same ability would have to apply across all sentences.  Not much good for a death or physical punishment ( if they existed ). Change your mind? Too late. Likewise exclusion, off you go, you subsequently decide you do want to appeal. You can’t return to prosecute your appeal.

In any event your situation isn’t one where bargaining could be done. You’ve been excluded. You’re due to be forcibly put on the boat, dragged kicking and streaming if necessary. There’s no bargain to be had. There’s no contract, no consideration.

[Happier diner]

5 hours ago, Gladys said:

Not sure that is the case. 

I said 'probably'.

Maybe change to very possibly

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3372590/It-s-good-time-come-begging-Britain-Romanian-gipsy-pair-fly-make-hundreds-pounds-weekend-home.html

😀

Edited July 29, 2023 by Happier diner

[Gladys]

13 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

I said 'probably'.

Maybe change to very possibly

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3372590/It-s-good-time-come-begging-Britain-Romanian-gipsy-pair-fly-make-hundreds-pounds-weekend-home.html

😀

If only it was reported in a different newspaper. 

[Happier diner]

30 minutes ago, Gladys said:

If only it was reported in a different newspaper. 

How many would you like?😄

 

https://metro.co.uk/2017/02/20/gang-of-beggars-pictured-getting-out-of-romanian-registered-car-in-cambridge-6459992/

https://www.camdennewjournal.co.uk/article/romanian-police-join-investigation-into-gangs-controlling-beggars

[Gladys]

Those articles  both confirm that begging can be organised crime, which can often involves coercion.  Not sure it confirms the original story of the couple travelling to beg voluntarily applies to all.