Beggars in Strand Street

[mollag]

It could also be the case that it is just a group of like minded professional beggars having a punt on the Island, there isnt necessarily an organised crime / Coerced back story, there are many Eastern Eurpoean folk on the Island, word of our situation, re absence of pro beggars would easily circulate, I reckon this first foray was a fail, it may not be the last.🤔

[Happier diner]

56 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Those articles  both confirm that begging can be organised crime, which can often involves coercion.  Not sure it confirms the original story of the couple travelling to beg voluntarily applies to all.  

I thought the point was there whether or not there was a greater preponderance of Romanians involved in this activity. Of course not all beggars are part of organised crime and not all begging where it is organised crime is associated with Romanians.  I get that. However it definitely seems that Romania supplies well over its share off beggars and a good deal is organised crime. Is that a fair statement.

We were in Madrid a few years ago. We saw the first little wizened up old lady begging on days. Then a few minutes later we saw her again somewhere else, then it dawned on up she was everywhere at the same time. If you looked closely they were watches by youths with big gold chains and designed clothing . 

Of course they could have been Belgians. But I strongly suspect not.

[Gladys]

14 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

I thought the point was there whether or not there was a greater preponderance of Romanians involved in this activity. Of course not all beggars are part of organised crime and not all begging where it is organised crime is associated with Romanians.  I get that. However it definitely seems that Romania supplies well over its share off beggars and a good deal is organised crime. Is that a fair statement.

We were in Madrid a few years ago. We saw the first little wizened up old lady begging on days. Then a few minutes later we saw her again somewhere else, then it dawned on up she was everywhere at the same time. If you looked closely they were watches by youths with big gold chains and designed clothing . 

Of course they could have been Belgians. But I strongly suspect not.

Sorry, no, I wasn't disputing the preponderance of any nationality or ethnic group engaged in the activity.   More that a lot may be due to trafficking and coercion, although as Mollag says some may just be enterprising  volunteers. 

It is just strange that we have had the sudden appearance of five on the island, all seemingly known to each other.  We still do not know how they got here, do we?

Was it as ticketholders (either with a vehicle or as foot passengers) or were they smuggled in?   

 

[Banker]

Sixth vagrant excluding from island, suppose some will want him housed by IOMG at our expense!

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/uk-man-excluded-from-island-after-admitting-vagrancy/?fbclid=IwAR0q63ydVGIx7QQDhpeGLJa5gaf3lLCjNoTuwQqqtJqR189UX7Rg-Wm6NSY

[John Wright]

15 minutes ago, Banker said:

Sixth vagrant excluding from island, suppose some will want him housed by IOMG at our expense!

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/uk-man-excluded-from-island-after-admitting-vagrancy/?fbclid=IwAR0q63ydVGIx7QQDhpeGLJa5gaf3lLCjNoTuwQqqtJqR189UX7Rg-Wm6NSY

You really are behind the times. This was discussed on here from Friday morning.

[The Voice of Reason]

I’ve not seen the beggars ( or whatever you may call them) in Strand Street.

But I was across a couple of weeks ago in a northern town.

I saw a lady sat on the pavement,  in a wretched condition with a plastic cup and a handmade sign in English describing her “plight”

I put a couple of quid in her cup.

Did I do wrong? Yes she may have been part of one of these “gangs”, quite possibly.

But all I saw in front of me was a lady, seemingly in distress. 
 

I may well have been duped and she was undeserving, But she obviously was not living the life of Riley to have to make money in this way, however little of a percentage she got out of my two quid.

I’m probably naive but I’d rather be that than uncaring

[Barlow]

I think as long as the taxman received their % of your £2 then that is just fine. I wouldn't worry about it.

[John Wright]

8 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

I’ve not seen the beggars ( or whatever you may call them) in Strand Street.

But I was across a couple of weeks ago in a northern town.

I saw a lady sat on the pavement,  in a wretched condition with a plastic cup and a handmade sign in English describing her “plight”

I put a couple of quid in her cup.

Did I do wrong? Yes she may have been part of one of these “gangs”, quite possibly.

But all I saw in front of me was a lady, seemingly in distress. 
 

I may well have been duped and she was undeserving, But she obviously was not living the life of Riley to have to make money in this way, however little of a percentage she got out of my two quid.

I’m probably naive but I’d rather be that than uncaring

For 25 years I’ve worked on the principle I don’t give money to people begging on the street. It often gets used to fuel a drink or drugs habit. Even street people are entitled to benefits and night shelter accommodation ( although neither are a safe or long term solution for the issues many face ).

Im happy to buy the Big Issue, to reward busking or performance, buy a cuppa or sandwich.

Nowadays I’ll buy forward, in establishments that welcome street people, paying for a drink or food that can be given to a street person who comes in. Lots of places offer this. At least I can know my contribution hasn’t paid for drink/drugs or funded a gang master/modern slavers lifestyle.

[Roxanne]

1 hour ago, John Wright said:

For 25 years I’ve worked on the principle I don’t give money to people begging on the street. It often gets used to fuel a drink or drugs habit.

I’ve often heard this quoted as a reason to justify not giving money to people who live on the street.
 

I have a couple of thoughts around this  The first, is that when I give a gift, be it monetary, an item or in kind, what happens after that is none of my business. The gift is given from the heart with no conditions attached.

The second is the recognition that life on the street is hard and that if my money is going toward drink or drugs, then so be it. Maybe that’s just what they need to get them through the day or the night and to secure either, is more important to their ‘well being’ than buying a McDonalds extra large meal.  It’s not for me to judge and I can say that I’ve given away £20/30 at times knowing exactly where it is going.  Giving it away is my right and spending it on what they need is theirs  I’m not criticising your stance, just that there is another way to look at it.  

 

 

 

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by Roxanne
Numerous typos.

[The Voice of Reason]

3 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

I’ve often heard this quoted as a reason to justify not giving money to people who live on the street.
 

I have a couple of thoughts around this  The first, is that when I give a gift, be it monetary, an item or in kind, what happens after that is none of my business. The gift is given from the heart with no conditions attached.

The second is the recognition that life on the street is hard and that if my money is going toward drink or drugs, then so be it. Maybe that’s just what they need to get them through the day or the night and to secure either, is more important to their ‘well being’ than buying a McDonalds extra large meal.  It’s not for me to judge and I can say that I’ve given away £20/30 at times knowing exactly where it is going.  Giving it away is my right and spending it on what they need is theirs  I’m not criticising your stance, just that there is another way to look at it.  

 

That’s pretty much how I feel Rox.

Although I don’t take drugs I do enjoy the odd drink so if I give money to street people who choose to spend it on a can of lager then that’s up to them. It would be hypocritical of me to say you can’t spend your money ( which I have given you) on what you like.

You can do this and also buy a copy of the Big Issue.

A gift with strings attached is not really a gift. 

[John Wright]

3 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

That’s pretty much how I feel Rox.

Although I don’t take drugs I do enjoy the odd drink so if I give money to street people who choose to spend it on a can of lager then that’s up to them. It would be hypocritical of me to say you can’t spend your money ( which I have given you) on what you like.

You can do this and also buy a copy of the Big Issue.

A gift with strings attached is not really a gift. 

But my version doesn’t gift with strings. It avoids the hypocrisy.  It recognises that many street people have ended up there because of drink or drugs, often combined with mental health issues.

The 5 biggest issues leading to street living/homelessness are

Drink

Drugs

Mental illness

Abuse including rejection for LGBT ( especially of younger Street people )

[Hoops]

'A gift with strings attached is not really a gift". Maybe we're looking at this all wrong. We should give beggar's all the left over bits from the 'Love IoM' cards, and their spending it would be a huugggeeee boost to the poor hospitality sector, which isn't adverse to a bit of corporate begging, anyway. 

Bloody hell, haven't listened to that lot since the 80's. I've got them tattooed on my arm.😐.From a time when I was squatting, and, if skint, wasn't averse to sticking my hand out. "Got 10p?". Which I might have then put towards getting a chaotic dischord tattoo. This is the shit your kindness can enable!!

Edit - I should point out that the reason for my homelessness was that, at the time, I was a stupid twat. Can't really blame it on any other factor.

I enjoyed the squatting scene to an extent, but after time it is so easy, as a callow youth, to get drawn into the darker side of things.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Hoops

[Roxanne]

2 minutes ago, Hoops said:

'A gift with strings attached is not really a gift". Maybe we're looking at this all wrong. We should give beggar's all the left over bits from the 'Love IoM' cards, and their spending it would be a huugggeeee boost to the poor hospitality sector, which isn't adverse to a bit of corporate begging, anyway. 

Bloody hell, haven't listened to that lot since the 80's. I've got them tattooed on my arm.😐.From a time when I was squatting, and, if skint, wasn't averse to sticking my hand out. "Got 10p?". Which I might have then put towards getting a chaotic dischord tattoo. This is the shit your kindness can enable!!

I’d like a ‘love’ emoji for that one. ❤️

[The Voice of Reason]

6 minutes ago, John Wright said:

The 5 biggest issues leading to street living/homelessness are

Drink

Drugs

Mental illness

Abuse including rejection for LGBT ( especially of younger Street people )

That’s only four!

[Roxanne]

12 minutes ago, John Wright said:

The 5 biggest issues leading to street living/homelessness are

Drink

Drugs

Mental illness

Abuse

May I suggest that the fifth is ‘trauma’. Unhealed trauma at that. And while it’s unhealed then those who live rough can take whatever comfort they can find to assuage it. 

Edited July 30, 2023 by Roxanne
Change words.