Beggars in Strand Street

[Roxanne]

1 hour ago, Gladys said:

How rude!

Made me laugh! Still laughing now.

And to be fair, he’s not wrong. 😂

Edited July 24, 2023 by Roxanne
Add second line.

[John Wright]

25 minutes ago, woolley said:

If they were entitled to benefits they would have means of support. The fact that they are begging implies they are penniless. Or at least that's what they would have us believe.

Begging and being penniless are not the same thing at all. 

 

25 minutes ago, woolley said:

Why should the taxpayer pay for that process? Is it cheaper than putting them straight back on the boat? I very much doubt it. If the police don't have the power, change the law. That's why we have Tynwald.

Of course getting them to agree to go and pay for their fares is cheaper than the tax payer paying their fares. You seem to think they’re penniless. They aren’t, or at least the organisation that brought them here, puts them out on the streets, and collects their takings isn’t.

Are you seriously suggesting giving the police the power to pick up people from the street, on suspicion, no due process, no appeal or review rights, and removing them, is possible or acceptable?

Its a law that would never get royal assent and would be overturned by the courts here, or Strasbourg.

25 minutes ago, woolley said:

They'd soon get fed up of to-ing and fro-ing across the Irish Sea.

You’ve really misunderstood. The exclusion legislation requires they must not be removed until 28 days after the order is made. There won’t be any going and froing. They can stay, as long as they don’t beg or become a burden on the public purse. The only way exclusion works nowadays is at the end of a prison sentence lasting more than 28 days.

 

25 minutes ago, woolley said:

Then it's time the UK got tough on people who clearly thumb their nose and take advantage of a soft regime for their own criminal ends.

That’s as maybe, but difficult to achieve in practice if none of the “beggars”  will complain and give evidence..

[woolley]

55 minutes ago, John Wright said:

That’s as maybe, but difficult to achieve in practice if none of the “beggars”  will complain and give evidence..

Problems. Problems. But not our problems. Simply fly them from the UK to Bucharest. And while they're about it, fly all the Albanian "refugees" and "asylum seekers" back to Tirana. The only people benefiting from the current farce are lawyers. If the law doesn't like it, change the law.

[John Wright]

11 minutes ago, woolley said:

Problems. Problems. But not our problems. Simply fly them from the UK to Bucharest. And while they're about it, fly all the Albanian "refugees" and "asylum seekers" back to Tirana. The only people benefiting from the current farce are lawyers. If the law doesn't like it, change the law.

You’re quite right.

I’ll phone police HQ and ask them to pick you up and helicopter you to

The Old Grain Store 
Church Lane
Lyminster, nr Littlehampton
West Sussex
BN17 7QJ

I’m sure you’ll feel right at home.

[woolley]

2 hours ago, John Wright said:

You’re quite right.

I’ll phone police HQ and ask them to pick you up and helicopter you to

The Old Grain Store 
Church Lane
Lyminster, nr Littlehampton
West Sussex
BN17 7QJ

I’m sure you’ll feel right at home.

I know I'm quite right, but obviously you don't understand the difference between valuable citizens legitimately providing employment and paying taxes for the betterment of the community, and aliens who are here for nefarious purposes, are a cancer on society, and should be banished without delay or ceremony. You argue for their human rights and due process while they laugh at your credulity. Don't believe they have any gratitude or respect for you or your naivety. It's a jungle where weakness is exploited by the unscrupulous.

Perhaps we should airlift you to the ECHR in Strasbourg where your ideas will find much favour. The laws put together in the aftermath of WW2 are not fit for the challenges of the current age, and they will need to be radically overhauled. It will happen too, because public opinion will demand it either through the ballot box right across Europe or by more unpredictable direct action if politicians continue to ignore legitimate frustrations about crime ruining the lives of ordinary people who are just trying to get by. Of course, the lawyers and judges who are completely divorced from reality in their ivory towers and gated communities will still be pontificating like Gorbachev as everything they believe in collapses around them.

[Harry Lamb]

8 hours ago, woolley said:

I know I'm quite right, but obviously you don't understand the difference between valuable citizens legitimately providing employment and paying taxes for the betterment of the community, and aliens who are here for nefarious purposes, are a cancer on society, and should be banished without delay or ceremony. You argue for their human rights and due process while they laugh at your credulity. Don't believe they have any gratitude or respect for you or your naivety. It's a jungle where weakness is exploited by the unscrupulous.

Perhaps we should airlift you to the ECHR in Strasbourg where your ideas will find much favour. The laws put together in the aftermath of WW2 are not fit for the challenges of the current age, and they will need to be radically overhauled. It will happen too, because public opinion will demand it either through the ballot box right across Europe or by more unpredictable direct action if politicians continue to ignore legitimate frustrations about crime ruining the lives of ordinary people who are just trying to get by. Of course, the lawyers and judges who are completely divorced from reality in their ivory towers and gated communities will still be pontificating like Gorbachev as everything they believe in collapses around them.

Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Führer! 

[WTF]

1 hour ago, Harry Lamb said:

Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Führer! 

yes Alf.

[offshoremanxman]

10 hours ago, woolley said:

I know I'm quite right, but obviously you don't understand the difference between valuable citizens legitimately providing employment and paying taxes for the betterment of the community, and aliens who are here for nefarious purposes, are a cancer on society, and should be banished without delay or ceremony.

Aliens? Which planet did they come from? 

[P.K.]

1 hour ago, offshoremanxman said:

Aliens? Which planet did they come from? 

An Alien was the time-honoured definition between a standard issue foreigner and a Commonwealth Citizen.

[offshoremanxman]

4 minutes ago, P.K. said:

An Alien was the time-honoured definition between a standard issue foreigner and a Commonwealth Citizen.

I’m aware of that: it’s ridiculous outdated language. 

[Barlow]

At the risk of sounding like a gammonised Daily Mail reader, are these beggars incapable of working? I'd rather wash dishes in O'Donnells or sweep the streets rather than sitting under a pish-stained sleeping bag all day with cramp in me arse and having to put on a face like Dot Cotton chewing stinging nettles.

[The Phantom]

On 7/24/2023 at 7:59 AM, mad_manx said:

I remember seeing  a documentary about it ..The Roma migrated from ? India hundreds of years ago .. So I suppose they look similar..

Really?  Interesting.  I've often wondered why the Roma seemed so segregated from the 'rest' of the European population.  I'll look into that further.

[Roger Mexico]

5 minutes ago, P.K. said:

An Alien was the time-honoured definition between a standard issue foreigner and a Commonwealth Citizen.

The old British legal definition was actually just someone who wasn't a British citizen - as in the pre-WWI Aliens Acts.  It's only been extended to those other groups (and eg the Irish) as they had their British citizenship taken away from them over the years.

[P.K.]

5 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

The old British legal definition was actually just someone who wasn't a British citizen - as in the pre-WWI Aliens Acts.  It's only been extended to those other groups (and eg the Irish) as they had their British citizenship taken away from them over the years.

Aliens is circa 18th century.

They had to register with the police on entry, report changes of address and so forth.

When Commonwealth Citizens appeared in the thirties they were treated differently as were Stateless and so forth.

There was another category that appeared just after the Falklands Conflict. I was summonsed by the Home Office to appear at Petty France with my passport to "regularise my status" whatever that was. When I left I was a newly minted "Citizen of the UK and Colonies" - made me so proud not...

[John Wright]

2 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

The old British legal definition was actually just someone who wasn't a British citizen - as in the pre-WWI Aliens Acts.  It's only been extended to those other groups (and eg the Irish) as they had their British citizenship taken away from them over the years.

 

1 hour ago, P.K. said:

Aliens is circa 18th century.

They had to register with the police on entry, report changes of address and so forth.

When Commonwealth Citizens appeared in the thirties they were treated differently as were Stateless and so forth.

There was another category that appeared just after the Falklands Conflict. I was summonsed by the Home Office to appear at Petty France with my passport to "regularise my status" whatever that was. When I left I was a newly minted "Citizen of the UK and Colonies" - made me so proud not...

The problem is that we are all someone else’s Alien. It’s a demeaning, dehumanising, term. It’s used to describe the different, the other, the foreign, the weak, the poor, the exploited and exploitable.

How a country treats those categories says a lot about the country, and in particular its politicians, and where they want to take us.

Alien is the start of the Niemöller proposition.