finlo Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 52 minutes ago, Gladys said: You are right, but how do we get a leader in the current democratic process we have? We don't, and that suits them just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxanne Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 1 minute ago, finlo said: We don't, and that suits them just fine. But why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passing Time Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, Roxanne said: But why? Probably because if the leader is feckin useless then the not so bright below don't look as stupid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxanne Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 Just now, Passing Time said: Probably because if the leader is feckin useless then the not so bright below don't look as stupid I cannot believe that. I just can’t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 15 minutes ago, Roxanne said: Maybe the question should be, why do the MHK’s vote in such useless ones. You can’t tell me that someone (anyone) wouldn’t have been better than Quayle? And why the extreme right wing ineffectual Cannan? Surely out of all the choice they had there could have been better. Do they vote these ineffectual in on purpose? And if so, why? A leader of the sort that the Island needs now would have to make unpopular decisions. Not the sort that only sting the public but one who would have to wield the axe throughout Govt and redistribute the savings and efficiencies into services at the coalface. That would knock on to unpopularity of constituency candidates amongst voters and none of them want that. Cannan may be thought of as right wing but he's a wet rag compared to what's needed across Govt. 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 20 minutes ago, Roxanne said: Maybe the question should be, why do the MHK’s vote in such useless ones. You can’t tell me that someone (anyone) wouldn’t have been better than Quayle? And why the extreme right wing ineffectual Cannan? Surely out of all the choice they had there could have been better. Do they vote these ineffectual in on purpose? And if so, why? Its because democracy is critically flawed. Everything always ends up with a compromise, and compromises are always weak. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 9 hours ago, manxman1980 said: I suspect that there are more older people than younger. We have had a problem with an aging population for a long time and birth rates are falling. If you vote in favour of spending more on the elderly then you divert funds from things that would benefit the young. You are also less likely to vote in favour of long term measures that would be of benefit in the long term but without a substantial short term return for you. Examples would be measures intended to preserve the environment for future. Younger people now have much more difficultly in day to day life as the cost of housing has risen. Many baby boomers have become landlords further increasing costs for the young. Wages have at best stagnated but realistically have fallen as well. I am not surprised in the slightest at your selfish attitude though Going back to this supposed schism that exists between the generations. Broadly this doesn’t exist. As one of the older members of society I don’t say “ I don’t give a shit about environmental concerns, because I will soon be dead” Three main reasons for this:- Firstly I want the environment to be a better, cleaner place irrespective of my age. Secondly I have family, acquaintances etc who are younger than I, and I do care what sort of world they live in when I’ve gone. Thirdly, I don’t constantly think about my own mortality. I have it in my head I am going to live forever so want the best for myself. Younger people don’t have more difficulty in day today as the cost of housing has risen. It’s not a new phenomenon I recall paying 12%+ interest on my mortgage in my twenties / thirties. Younger people should be grateful that the interest rate has been so low for so long. You try telling the last remaining coal miners who have toiled underground for the last thirty or forty years to bring up families that they are a selfish bunch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said: Younger people don’t have more difficulty in day today as the cost of housing has risen. It’s not a new phenomenon I recall paying 12%+ interest on my mortgage in my twenties / thirties. Younger people should be grateful that the interest rate has been so low for so long. And what was the size of your mortgage when you were paying 12% interest? What proportion of your income was going to pay that mortgage? What size deposit did you need to have to get a mortgage? The price of a house has risen significantly more than average earnings partly thanks to a shortage of new affordable housing, boomers owning multiple properties as landlords and that same generation living longer. There is also a reason why people refer to soon MHK's as Granny Farmers... Edited July 31, 2023 by manxman1980 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxanne Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 7 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: And what was the size of your mortgage when you were paying 12% interest? What proportion of your income was going to pay that mortgage? What size deposit did you need to have to get a mortgage? The price of a house has risen significantly more than average earnings partly thanks to a shortage of new affordable housing, boomers owning multiple properties as landlords and that same generation living longer. There is also a reason why people refer to soon MHK's as Granny Farmers... It’s true what you say. Looking back I never seemed to have a penny to spare from one month to another but conversely, I didn’t have the debt, hire purchase, credit cards that the young ones need now just to get through. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) When I was a kid very few people owned their own home. They couldn't afford it. Home ownership only exploded in the '80s with the new mortgage market available to all. Before that the banks wouldn't touch you. Most lived in social housing, rented, or in tied properties. The household budget was to get you through the week and nobody had any savings. There were no luxuries. Only the relatively wealthy owned their own homes. Manxman1980 has been misinformed. Edited July 31, 2023 by Shake me up Judy 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarndyce Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 12 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said: Manxman1980 has been misinformed. His use of the term “boomer” to make his point may have given away his underlying stance… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 1 hour ago, manxman1980 said: And what was the size of your mortgage when you were paying 12% interest? What proportion of your income was going to pay that mortgage? What size deposit did you need to have to get a mortgage? The price of a house has risen significantly more than average earnings partly thanks to a shortage of new affordable housing, boomers owning multiple properties as landlords and that same generation living longer. There is also a reason why people refer to soon MHK's as Granny Farmers... Size of mortgage was about 35k if I remember rightly when myself and my wife were earning about 5k each. Deposit needed was 10%. To finance the mortgage we both had to go to work and pay expensive childcare ( none of these childcare vouchers in those days) I can’t shed many tears for the majority of the younger generation today. They drive around in the sort of cars which I could never have dreamt of paying for at that age. They have to have £700+ phones, go on many more trips and holidays than ever. My stag do was going for a curry and a few pints. These days for stag and hen parties it’s off for a week or so to increasingly exotic locations etc etc. I know I sound like the Yorkshiremen in the Python sketch but these things are true. Apart from things economic and financial the young enjoy other advantages over the life we oldies had. There is less racism and homophobia in society. Yes still there, but much reduced. A greater understanding of mental health issues and improved treatment thereof. They have the benefit of advances in medical science and their lives will be longer They have all the advantages of modern technology. No treks to the local library for them to research school projects, homework etc. No siree , just Google it Etc, etc 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 I'll add to that: Old housing stock, damp and draughty and freezing in winter. No central heating; no double-glazing; no computers; no washing machines/dishwashers/tumble dryers/electric showers/microwaves/mobile phones etc. One fireplace in the living room. Rented T.V. if you had one at all. Beans on toast for a main meal. One car if you could afford it (Most couldn't); One week's holiday in the U.K. if you could afford it; etc. I could go on. 'And you try telling that to the kids of today...' 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newaccount Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 30 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: Size of mortgage was about 35k if I remember rightly when myself and my wife were earning about 5k each. Deposit needed was 10%. To finance the mortgage we both had to go to work and pay expensive childcare ( none of these childcare vouchers in those days) I can’t shed many tears for the majority of the younger generation today. They drive around in the sort of cars which I could never have dreamt of paying for at that age. They have to have £700+ phones, go on many more trips and holidays than ever. My stag do was going for a curry and a few pints. These days for stag and hen parties it’s off for a week or so to increasingly exotic locations etc etc. I know I sound like the Yorkshiremen in the Python sketch but these things are true. Apart from things economic and financial the young enjoy other advantages over the life we oldies had. There is less racism and homophobia in society. Yes still there, but much reduced. A greater understanding of mental health issues and improved treatment thereof. They have the benefit of advances in medical science and their lives will be longer They have all the advantages of modern technology. No treks to the local library for them to research school projects, homework etc. No siree , just Google it Etc, etc are you alright hun. do you need a hug? you sound quite bitter. but at least thats a cheap drink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 @Shake me up Judy @The Voice of Reason I bet you both had to walk 20 miles to and from school in shorts, through deep snow and uphill both ways. @Jarndyce I use boomers as short hand for the generation refereed to as Baby Boomers as opposed to Millenials, Gen X, Gen Z. I suppose you could include the early part of Generation X in my views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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