Windfarm could cost up to £40 million

[Happier diner]

17 minutes ago, Fred the shred said:

I think anyone who is going to be affected by these wind turbines have the right to find out about the finer details of the planned installation of these machines and to dismiss them as tosspots is immature and not very polite.      There are pros and cons in every scheme that is proposed and this is the time to consider them before any money is committed .     Just for interest I wonder how much the 42 million has shrunk to already there is already mention of consultants and they never come cheap.

But that's the point. You can only object to a planning application of you are affected. Not liking the sign of wind turbines on the hillside is not grounds to object. You are not affected by not liking something. They are just spoilers. They will no doubt get their way, as happens here. Squeaky wheels. 

[The Phantom]

12 hours ago, Happier diner said:

But that's the point. You can only object to a planning application of you are affected. Not liking the sign of wind turbines on the hillside is not grounds to object. You are not affected by not liking something. They are just spoilers. They will no doubt get their way, as happens here. Squeaky wheels. 

 

13 hours ago, Fred the shred said:

I think anyone who is going to be affected by these wind turbines have the right to find out about the finer details of the planned installation of these machines and to dismiss them as tosspots is immature and not very polite.      There are pros and cons in every scheme that is proposed and this is the time to consider them before any money is committed .     Just for interest I wonder how much the 42 million has shrunk to already there is already mention of consultants and they never come cheap.

Earystane, there are actually a few houses and farms around and I suspect the turbines would be fairly visible from much of the South of the Island.  I can understand a bit of a moan from some of the residents, rather than someone who has had their 'view spoiled'. 

Druidale however, there is literally nothing there.  Maybe 3 or 4 houses within 10 sq km of the area, it's not on the way to anywhere and is actually a relatively hidden area.  Has anyone been through there recently?  I've camped in the wood a few times when I was younger and sometimes ride through the area on a bike, but that’s it.  Maybe a couple of times a year I’ll head up there and I’m a relatively active outdoorsy type.  I cannot possibly see any valid justification for any significant complaints for that area. 

[2112]

Well all those offshore wind lovers will be happy, CM Cannan says on the NPM/MR that it’s not viable to generate for the IOM, so it will sell its power to the UK. Just watch IOMG make a dogs breakfast of things now trying to get royalties etc. Probably another screwed up squandered opportunities. 
 

If it’s not viable for offshore wind power generation then is it likely to be viable for any tidal power generation either?  I think the island will need to be plastered with solar panels and solar farms for it to make much of a difference and be viable. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by 2112

[Utah 01]

13 hours ago, Happier diner said:

Not liking the sign of wind turbines on the hillside is not grounds to object

.....so when you have one planted in your back garden you'll be out there with the bunting?

Your are very gung-ho about this rape of the Manx countryside.  I posed the question in a previous post asking you to declare your very obvious bias in favor of these abominations which you have studiously avoided.

Put your cards on the table.

[The Phantom]

26 minutes ago, Utah 01 said:

.....so when you have one planted in your back garden you'll be out there with the bunting?

Your are very gung-ho about this rape of the Manx countryside.  I posed the question in a previous post asking you to declare your very obvious bias in favor of these abominations which you have studiously avoided.

Put your cards on the table.

Rape and abominations?  It seems that you have already drawn your line in the sand... 

Nobody will have one in their back garden.

The closest they will possibly be to anyone's house would be 500 metres.  That is still quite a distance, worst case scenario and only relevant to Earystane. 

No one lives in Druidale. 

Easy solution from Manx Utilities to anyone within say 1km of the development (who are the only people who could justifiably complain) would be no charge for electricity.   Boom, lets see how many people then moan.

You know we are only talking about 5 - 10 turbines?

[La Colombe]

51 minutes ago, Utah 01 said:

 rape of the Manx countryside. 

[asitis]

Virtue signalling at its worst nothing more. Let's be honest, Government doesn't have the millions required, it can't even run education and health properly, but this will give a few people a fuzzy warm feeling about their part in saving the planet. Whilst I don't disagree with doing our bit, TBH at the moment saving the Isle of Man from it's government is more of a concern !

[Mercenary]

5 minutes ago, asitis said:

Virtue signalling at its worst nothing more. Let's be honest, Government doesn't have the millions required, it can't even run education and health properly, but this will give a few people a fuzzy warm feeling about their part in saving the planet. Whilst I don't disagree with doing our bit, TBH at the moment saving the Isle of Man from it's government is more of a concern !

I would normally agree but in this case onshore wind potentially makes good economic sense. Cost of generation is over £50m/year [1], Island usage is circa 360 GWh and the Earystane onshore facility could generate 130 GWh (without requiring landing stage etc.) for circa £40m. The generation costs listed are (I believe) pure marginal costs so whilst fixed costs may not change it is valid to assume near a third of this amount could be saved through onshore generation and a potential payback period of 2.5-5 years. Anything that reduces our cost base should be encouraged.

Once they're installed running costs should be fairly low and decommissioning costs can easily be allowed for.

 

[1] https://islandplan.im/media/esklxoeb/manx-utilities-annual-plan-apr23_compressed.pdf

[2] https://www.gov.im//media/1377795/isle-of-man-in-numbers-2022-121022.pdf

[3] https://www.manxutilities.im/media/2684/transition-decision-making-002-onshore-wind-site-selection.pdf

[The Phantom]

14 minutes ago, Mercenary said:

I would normally agree but in this case onshore wind potentially makes good economic sense. Cost of generation is over £50m/year [1], Island usage is circa 360 GWh and the Earystane onshore facility could generate 130 GWh (without requiring landing stage etc.) for circa £40m. The generation costs listed are (I believe) pure marginal costs so whilst fixed costs may not change it is valid to assume near a third of this amount could be saved through onshore generation and a potential payback period of 2.5-5 years. Anything that reduces our cost base should be encouraged.

Once they're installed running costs should be fairly low and decommissioning costs can easily be allowed for.

 

[1] https://islandplan.im/media/esklxoeb/manx-utilities-annual-plan-apr23_compressed.pdf

[2] https://www.gov.im//media/1377795/isle-of-man-in-numbers-2022-121022.pdf

[3] https://www.manxutilities.im/media/2684/transition-decision-making-002-onshore-wind-site-selection.pdf

Windier at Earystane so would be around 5 turbines for the 140 Gwh (which would be around a third of the Island's requirements under ideal conditions). Plus easier access than Druidale.

Druidale would be closer to 10 for the same generation.

 

[Cambon]

17 hours ago, Happier diner said:

Absolute nimbies.

The thing is, it would appear we are being railroaded into a few massive turbines, which is complete idiocy. Get the interconnection sorted and buy the cheap, green energy from the uk that we have already contributed towards. In addition to that it would be far more sensible to have multiple small turbines / solar panels feeding in from points all over the island. Such as a power plant on every rooftop. This could be done piecemeal over a long period of time. 
Installing half a dozen white elephants across a couple of beauty spots is short sighted and idiotic. What happens when the wind is too light or too strong to generate anything? Or, If one breaks down, or is taken offline for maintenance, a large part of our generating capability is lost. 

[AcousticallyChallenged]

3 hours ago, Utah 01 said:

.....so when you have one planted in your back garden you'll be out there with the bunting?

Your are very gung-ho about this rape of the Manx countryside.  I posed the question in a previous post asking you to declare your very obvious bias in favor of these abominations which you have studiously avoided.

Put your cards on the table.

What about the invisible poisoning of the Manx countryside and that worldwide from noxious emissions?

Is spoiling a view the greater evil?

[AcousticallyChallenged]

1 minute ago, Cambon said:

The thing is, it would appear we are being railroaded into a few massive turbines, which is complete idiocy. Get the interconnection sorted and buy the cheap, green energy from the uk that we have already contributed towards. In addition to that it would be far more sensible to have multiple small turbines / solar panels feeding in from points all over the island. Such as a power plant on every rooftop. This could be done piecemeal over a long period of time. 
Installing half a dozen white elephants across a couple of beauty spots is short sighted and idiotic. What happens when the wind is too light or too strong to generate anything? Or, If one breaks down, or is taken offline for maintenance, a large part of our generating capability is lost. 

Do the costs work out if you go that route?

Distributing it means more wiring, more control gear etc. You need to be able to switch generation on and off to maintain the grid's balance.

More maintenance too, both for the turbines themselves, and the supporting infrastructure.

Big turbines concentrate a lot of that effort into one area.

[The Phantom]

22 minutes ago, Cambon said:

The thing is, it would appear we are being railroaded into a few massive turbines, which is complete idiocy. Get the interconnection sorted and buy the cheap, green energy from the uk that we have already contributed towards. In addition to that it would be far more sensible to have multiple small turbines / solar panels feeding in from points all over the island. Such as a power plant on every rooftop. This could be done piecemeal over a long period of time. 
Installing half a dozen white elephants across a couple of beauty spots is short sighted and idiotic. What happens when the wind is too light or too strong to generate anything? Or, If one breaks down, or is taken offline for maintenance, a large part of our generating capability is lost. 

You're not speaking nonsense.  Solely using the interconnector wouldn't be a bad idea.  However, one of the USPs of the Island is that we have our own independent energy provision.  If we don't do this, we will be beheld to the UK Govt forevermore and they would likely use it for blackmail to bring us into line over any disagreements.  It was only a few months ago that France was threatening to cut off the power to Jersey. 

We need some energy independence.  We can't build a new fossil fuel power station due to the green virtue signaling and whilst a small nuclear reactor would probably be a good option, can you imagine the whining, if you look at all this kick off over 5 - 10 windmills? 

[Cambon]

4 minutes ago, The Phantom said:

You're not speaking nonsense.  Solely using the interconnector wouldn't be a bad idea.  However, one of the USPs of the Island is that we have our own independent energy provision.  If we don't do this, we will be beheld to the UK Govt forevermore and they would likely use it for blackmail to bring us into line over any disagreements.  It was only a few months ago that France was threatening to cut off the power to Jersey. 

We need some energy independence.  We can't build a new fossil fuel power station due to the green virtue signaling and whilst a small nuclear reactor would probably be a good option, can you imagine the whining, if you look at all this kick off over 5 - 10 windmills? 

The Jersey situation was a bit of a laugh! UK jumped to their defense. With regard to blackmail, don’t underestimate the value of iom and the CIs to the UK. 
 

On the independence front, we have Peel, the gas power station, Sulby and the bio-mass plant, as they are calling incinerators these days. Plenty of resilience. Those can be phased out over time by replacing them with small turbines and solar panels. 
 

Any whining over nuclear would be ignorance, as a small nuclear plant can be housed on a ship or a barge, which is a very good place for it, as they require water for cooling. When we are done with it, just tow it away. 

[doc.fixit]

8 minutes ago, Cambon said:

The Jersey situation was a bit of a laugh! UK jumped to their defense. With regard to blackmail, don’t underestimate the value of iom and the CIs to the UK. 
 

On the independence front, we have Peel, the gas power station, Sulby and the bio-mass plant, as they are calling incinerators these days. Plenty of resilience. Those can be phased out over time by replacing them with small turbines and solar panels. 
 

Any whining over nuclear would be ignorance, as a small nuclear plant can be housed on a ship or a barge, which is a very good place for it, as they require water for cooling. When we are done with it, just tow it away. 

Ex Russian submarine? They've got plenty laid up.