The Voice of Reason Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 7 minutes ago, finlo said: You seem to think everything the government do is top tier when the reality is everything single thing they are involved in it a fucking shambles! And what leads you to come to that conclusion? Perhaps some examples of me thinking everything single thing the government does is “top tier?” I may not gratuitously attack the Government merely for the sake of doing so as others do but have no hesitation in pointing out what I see are their failings ( or “ fucking shambles” as you prefer”), for example the mess that is the airport. I prefer to adopt a more balanced view. Pointing out failings when I see them but not having a blinkered, blanket “ the Government is rubbish” attitude. That’s not very grown up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 Just now, The Voice of Reason said: And what leads you to come to that conclusion? Perhaps some examples of me thinking everything single thing the government does is “top tier?” I may not gratuitously attack the Government merely for the sake of doing so as others do but have no hesitation in pointing out what I see are their failings ( or “ fucking shambles” as you prefer”), for example the mess that is the airport. I prefer to adopt a more balanced view. Pointing out failings when I see them but not having a blinkered, blanket “ the Government is rubbish” attitude. That’s not very grown up. Name something they excel at then. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 14 minutes ago, finlo said: Name something they excel at then. Point proven you can't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 3 minutes ago, finlo said: Name something they excel at then. I asked you first. To give examples of me thinking that everything the government is “ top tier” which I note you have not provided even one such example. Anyway I am not in the habit of dodging questions. The first something that comes to mind where you have asked where the Government excels is communication. Ring a Government department be that for example, Income Tax, Customs and Excise, Vehicle Licensing etc and you will usually be able to speak to a real person who is invariably helpful. Compare that to other jurisdictions. I know people who have started their own small businesses with both financial help and advice from Government departments. They've not done a bad job of keeping tax rates low either. But as I referenced earlier there are many failings, but just saying “everything they are involved with is just a fucking shambles “ is simply not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 3 minutes ago, finlo said: Point proven you can't. I just did. See above. I had to compose my response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 2 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: I asked you first. To give examples of me thinking that everything the government is “ top tier” which I note you have not provided even one such example. Anyway I am not in the habit of dodging questions. The first something that comes to mind where you have asked where the Government excels is communication. Ring a Government department be that for example, Income Tax, Customs and Excise, Vehicle Licensing etc and you will usually be able to speak to a real person who is invariably helpful. Compare that to other jurisdictions. I know people who have started their own small businesses with both financial help and advice from Government departments. They've not done a bad job of keeping tax rates low either. But as I referenced earlier there are many failings, but just saying “everything they are involved with is just a fucking shambles “ is simply not true. Only helpful because all those things you've mentioned involve taking money off you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 3 minutes ago, finlo said: Only helpful because all those things you've mentioned involve taking money off you. Like giving start up grants to new companies for capital expenditure. Obtaining a tax refund. That sort of taking money off you, do you mean? Any chance of you answering my question now? It was some time ago but just to remind you I asked you for examples of me thinking everything the government doing being “ top tier” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarndyce Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 3 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said: You pooh your pants” ” No you pooh your pants” ” No I don’t you are Mr pooh pants” I said it first Etc etc Remarkably prescient post, Mr TVoR… 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 4 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: Like giving start up grants to new companies for capital expenditure. Obtaining a tax refund. That sort of taking money off you, do you mean? Any chance of you answering my question now? It was some time ago but just to remind you I asked you for examples of me thinking everything the government doing being “ top tier” I can't think of anything specific but you're always blowing their trumpet! How about the disasters that are the health service, education, airport,sea services,DOI,NSC, Liverpool landing stage, promenade, incinerator to name but a few. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 5 minutes ago, Jarndyce said: Remarkably prescient post, Mr TVoR… I understand what you’re trying to say but the differences are obvious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 4 minutes ago, finlo said: I can't think of anything specific but you're always blowing their trumpet! How about the disasters that are the health service, education, airport,sea services,DOI,NSC, Liverpool landing stage, promenade, incinerator to name but a few. You can’t think of anything specific. So your original statement is just wrong. Yes the items listed in your second paragraph are all disasters as you say. I’ll give you a second chance then. Point me to where I have said any of them are a success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 7 minutes ago, finlo said: I can't think of anything specific but you're always blowing their trumpet! How about the disasters that are the health service, education, airport,sea services,DOI,NSC, Liverpool landing stage, promenade, incinerator to name but a few. You can add Ranson and her treatment and the attendant costs to that list; not to mention the damage to the Island's reputation. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarndyce Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 15 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: I understand what you’re trying to say but the differences are obvious Not really… 42 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: I asked you first. QED. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred the shred Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 There must be something in the water, they haven’t started putting fluoride in or something equally noxious on the quiet have they ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 5 hours ago, Non-Believer said: Bell claimed that Treasury had no knowledge of the establishment of the loans during the Inquiry though it was also noted that his name was completely absent within the Inquiry findings. Most convenient. Proffit was unable to be interviewed by the Police courtesy of restrictions imposed by the then AG. Most convenient. Nobody involved at any senior or political level faced any sanction whatsoever and walked away intact. A pity the same cannot be said for the taxpayers finances. There were certainly hints in the reports that Bell and others, such as the Chief Secretary, knew more than they claimed. But as the Guardian reported at the time: Any inquiry into the Manx Electricity Authority's extra loans taken out with Barclays would look at the role of MEA's chief executive at the time, Mike Proffitt. A local man who had worked in America, he was hired by MEA in 2000 to bring an "entrepreneurial spirit" to the state-owned generator. At the time the loans were being negotiated, he was also chairman of Barclays Private Clients International, the same division of the bank that loaned the MEA subsidiary - the Manx Cable Company - its two unauthorised loans of £50m and £70m. And indeed the MEA had been specially turned into an arms-length company with a Board full businessmen who would be sure to make sure that such "entrepreneurialism" would flourish without all those pesky civil service rules. A sure recipe for success. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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