Windfarm could cost up to £40 million

[HiVibes]

29 minutes ago, Amadeus said:

Why can’t we have some free electrickery through this? 

Because it is in Shetland you dimwit.

[Dirty Buggane]

What we need is an huge and I mean HUGE battery with a long cable to Europe, then we could buy up all the cheap electric and hey presto carbon neutral. But that would not suit our masters as they rely on charging the highest price they can to keep paying the millions back/ sorry servicing the loan that Proffit landed us with, you know the one that was illegal but hey presto we were mistaken it is legal.   

 

Edited September 2 by Dirty Buggane

[Banker]

Head of Orsted uk just been on sky news about expansion plans and how UK needs to do more to meet targets for renewable energy.

little snippet here, maybe Julian who’s always on mannin line with his strange views on wind turbines can be interviewed 😂

https://news.sky.com/video/energy-can-the-uk-achieve-its-offshore-wind-target-13208604

[Cambon]

53 minutes ago, Banker said:

Head of Orsted uk just been on sky news about expansion plans and how UK needs to do more to meet targets for renewable energy.

little snippet here, maybe Julian who’s always on mannin line with his strange views on wind turbines can be interviewed 😂

https://news.sky.com/video/energy-can-the-uk-achieve-its-offshore-wind-target-13208604

Should have said: 

“UK needs to do more to line our pockets. There is a new super yacht I quite fancy.” 

[Non-Believer]

The few people who will stand to do well out of Earystane are the equipment suppliers and contractors and a small number of MUA executives via bonuses and perks, IMHO.

As in Shetland/Viking, the consumers of the Island will see nothing, certainly of any economic benefit.

[Happier diner]

9 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

The few people who will stand to do well out of Earystane are the equipment suppliers and contractors and a small number of MUA executives via bonuses and perks, IMHO.

As in Shetland/Viking, the consumers of the Island will see nothing, certainly of any economic benefit.

Do MUA executives get bonuses?

[The Phantom]

On 9/1/2024 at 2:27 PM, philwebs said:

Water turbines in the rivers.

How many disused water mills are there? They were working a hundred years ago, and with modifications the mill race could be adapted to producing electricity. Micro hydro fed into the grid is more reliable than solar/wind. No incentives and no thought given.

It could work for one person who has a house next to a water mill.  But it's not scalable for our streams and population.

On 9/1/2024 at 9:40 PM, Frances said:

less than 200 water wheels about 15 water corn mills maybe 30 or small threshing mills - currently putting a few pages on manxnotebook re mills (look under gazateer - the largest wheel, the Lady isabella, was estimated to produce 260hp ie about 200kwh. most mills about 16hp tho the larger one at Laxey had a 60hp turbine + coal fired steam engine.

The island has no large rivers other than the Sulby and no high catchment areas - there are reports looking into this type of scheme from 1890 onwards - all soon came to conclusion insufficient to be useful except for very small isolated use

I remember looking into the Laxey Wheel power generation for some reason and as you note, it's a remarkably small amount of power considering its size.  Effectively as powerful as a decent family car. 

There is a hydro generator below Sulby Reservoir, but it only generates about 1% of our needs.

https://www.manxutilities.im/about-us/our-assets/electricity/power-stations/

Edited September 3 by The Phantom

[Banker]

And more wind power for UK

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c86ldzve4neo

[Non-Believer]

4 hours ago, Happier diner said:

Do MUA executives get bonuses?

I believe that they certainly do, maybe even harking back to the days of Mike Proffit's generosity and largesse towards the people he brought in.

[asitis]

7 hours ago, Happier diner said:

Do MUA executives get bonuses?

Yes by illegal loans  sorry legal loans . 🤣

Edited September 3 by asitis

[Amadeus]

I asked it to act as one of the big consulting companies and write a document why this project is a bad idea:

 

### Discussion Document: Why the Isle of Man Government Should Not Pursue Onshore Wind Farms

**Objective:**  
This document evaluates the potential downsides of onshore wind farms for the Isle of Man, examining both economic and environmental implications. By adopting a strategic, long-term perspective, we argue against onshore wind development, focusing on alternative energy solutions that deliver superior **return on investment** and **minimized environmental impact**.

---

### Executive Summary
Onshore wind farms, while a popular renewable energy option, present significant challenges that could hinder the Isle of Man’s overall economic growth and environmental sustainability. Key considerations include the high operational footprint, aesthetic disruptions to the landscape, and suboptimal energy output relative to other forms of clean energy. The Isle of Man should prioritize more innovative, less intrusive technologies to meet its energy goals.

---

### 1. **Strategic Concerns with Onshore Wind Farms**

1. **Operational Inefficiency**  
   The Isle of Man’s **geographical constraints** and inconsistent wind patterns lead to **diminishing returns** on energy generation. Onshore wind farms are not scalable for high-density energy production, especially compared to alternatives like offshore wind or solar.

2. **Environmental Impact**  
   Onshore wind farms would necessitate significant **land disruption**, affecting biodiversity, local wildlife, and potentially leading to long-term environmental degradation. This compromises the Isle of Man’s commitment to **sustainable development** and **ecotourism**.

3. **Cost-Structure Complexity**  
   The **capital expenditure (CAPEX)** for onshore wind is deceptively high when considering the **full lifecycle costs**, including land use, transmission infrastructure, and maintenance. Furthermore, the **Levelized Cost of Energy (LCOE)** for onshore wind, when factoring in intermittency, remains higher than more stable, high-yield options like offshore wind or geothermal.

---

### 2. **Impact on Key Stakeholders**

1. **Local Communities**  
   Onshore wind farms introduce significant **visual pollution**, impacting both residents and the tourism sector. The **“not-in-my-backyard” (NIMBY)** phenomenon could lead to increased opposition from local stakeholders, thus delaying project timelines and increasing administrative costs.

2. **Real Estate & Tourism**  
   The development of large onshore wind farms may negatively affect **real estate values** due to the perceived drop in landscape quality. Additionally, tourism, a key economic pillar for the Isle of Man, could be compromised as the island’s natural vistas are interrupted by large wind structures.

3. **Long-term Viability**  
   The **intermittent nature** of onshore wind, coupled with the Isle of Man’s evolving energy needs, suggests this option is not a robust long-term solution. More resilient and scalable technologies should be prioritized to ensure **future-proofing** the island’s energy grid.

---

### 3. **Alternatives to Onshore Wind Farms**

1. **Offshore Wind Farms**  
   Offshore wind presents a **low-impact, high-output** alternative that leverages the stronger and more consistent wind patterns at sea. The Isle of Man’s geographic positioning offers a unique opportunity to establish itself as a leader in **offshore wind energy**, which delivers higher yields and fewer disruptions to local ecosystems.

2. **Solar and Battery Storage**  
   Solar energy, combined with cutting-edge **battery storage technology**, offers a flexible, modular solution to renewable energy. Solar panels require significantly less land and present no noise or aesthetic pollution, making them an ideal complement to the Isle of Man’s energy mix.

3. **Geothermal Energy**  
   Another underutilized option is **geothermal energy**, which offers **constant, base-load power** and minimal environmental disruption. This would align with the island’s long-term **sustainability goals** and offer energy security independent of weather patterns.

---

### 4. **Strategic Roadmap to Avoid Onshore Wind**

#### **Year 1: Feasibility Studies and Strategic Alignment**
- Conduct comprehensive **Energy Mix Feasibility Studies** to assess long-term viability of offshore wind, solar, and geothermal alternatives.
- Engage with stakeholders in the tourism and real estate sectors to evaluate potential socio-economic impacts.

#### **Year 2: Investment in Offshore Wind and Solar Technologies**
- Begin **Public-Private Partnerships (PPPs)** to fund offshore wind developments and invest in advanced battery storage technologies for solar.
- Align **regulatory frameworks** to fast-track permits for low-impact, scalable energy solutions.

#### **Year 3: Public Engagement and Branding**
- Launch a **public relations campaign** positioning the Isle of Man as a leader in **low-impact, future-oriented renewable energy**. Highlight the benefits of offshore wind and solar while managing public perception around energy choices.
- Establish **energy innovation hubs** to support local talent and attract global partnerships in sustainable energy R&D.

#### **Year 4: Pilot Projects and Ecosystem Development**
- Execute pilot projects in **offshore wind** and **solar farms**, accompanied by **storage solutions**. Monitor for scalability and impact on the island’s energy security.
- Implement **ecosystem restoration programs** to ensure minimal disruption to local biodiversity.

#### **Year 5: Full-Scale Implementation and Long-Term Sustainability**
- Scale successful pilot projects and integrate them into the national grid.
- Develop long-term partnerships with **energy technology firms** to ensure continuous innovation in renewable energy, emphasizing **zero-disruption technologies**.

---

### 5. **Key Performance Indicators (KPIs)**

- **Energy Mix Diversification:** Track the percentage increase in energy sourced from offshore wind, solar, and geothermal.
- **Community Engagement Metrics:** Measure local satisfaction through surveys and reduced opposition to energy projects.
- **Tourism Impact:** Monitor tourism growth rates and track the impact of energy projects on visitor perceptions.
- **LCOE Reduction:** Achieve a targeted reduction in the **Levelized Cost of Energy** by focusing on high-yield, low-disruption alternatives.

---

### Conclusion

While onshore wind farms are often perceived as a straightforward solution to renewable energy needs, they do not align with the long-term economic and environmental goals of the Isle of Man. The risks—both economic and socio-environmental—outweigh the potential benefits. By focusing on offshore wind, solar, and geothermal energy, the Isle of Man can maintain its **competitive edge** in renewable energy without compromising the island's unique landscape or socio-economic fabric.

[Happier diner]

2 hours ago, Amadeus said:

I asked it to act as one of the big consulting companies and write a document why this project is a bad idea:

 

### Discussion Document: Why the Isle of Man Government Should Not Pursue Onshore Wind Farms

**Objective:**  
This document evaluates the potential downsides of onshore wind farms for the Isle of Man, examining both economic and environmental implications. By adopting a strategic, long-term perspective, we argue against onshore wind development, focusing on alternative energy solutions that deliver superior **return on investment** and **minimized environmental impact**.

---

### Executive Summary
Onshore wind farms, while a popular renewable energy option, present significant challenges that could hinder the Isle of Man’s overall economic growth and environmental sustainability. Key considerations include the high operational footprint, aesthetic disruptions to the landscape, and suboptimal energy output relative to other forms of clean energy. The Isle of Man should prioritize more innovative, less intrusive technologies to meet its energy goals.

---

### 1. **Strategic Concerns with Onshore Wind Farms**

1. **Operational Inefficiency**  
   The Isle of Man’s **geographical constraints** and inconsistent wind patterns lead to **diminishing returns** on energy generation. Onshore wind farms are not scalable for high-density energy production, especially compared to alternatives like offshore wind or solar.

2. **Environmental Impact**  
   Onshore wind farms would necessitate significant **land disruption**, affecting biodiversity, local wildlife, and potentially leading to long-term environmental degradation. This compromises the Isle of Man’s commitment to **sustainable development** and **ecotourism**.

3. **Cost-Structure Complexity**  
   The **capital expenditure (CAPEX)** for onshore wind is deceptively high when considering the **full lifecycle costs**, including land use, transmission infrastructure, and maintenance. Furthermore, the **Levelized Cost of Energy (LCOE)** for onshore wind, when factoring in intermittency, remains higher than more stable, high-yield options like offshore wind or geothermal.

---

### 2. **Impact on Key Stakeholders**

1. **Local Communities**  
   Onshore wind farms introduce significant **visual pollution**, impacting both residents and the tourism sector. The **“not-in-my-backyard” (NIMBY)** phenomenon could lead to increased opposition from local stakeholders, thus delaying project timelines and increasing administrative costs.

2. **Real Estate & Tourism**  
   The development of large onshore wind farms may negatively affect **real estate values** due to the perceived drop in landscape quality. Additionally, tourism, a key economic pillar for the Isle of Man, could be compromised as the island’s natural vistas are interrupted by large wind structures.

3. **Long-term Viability**  
   The **intermittent nature** of onshore wind, coupled with the Isle of Man’s evolving energy needs, suggests this option is not a robust long-term solution. More resilient and scalable technologies should be prioritized to ensure **future-proofing** the island’s energy grid.

---

### 3. **Alternatives to Onshore Wind Farms**

1. **Offshore Wind Farms**  
   Offshore wind presents a **low-impact, high-output** alternative that leverages the stronger and more consistent wind patterns at sea. The Isle of Man’s geographic positioning offers a unique opportunity to establish itself as a leader in **offshore wind energy**, which delivers higher yields and fewer disruptions to local ecosystems.

2. **Solar and Battery Storage**  
   Solar energy, combined with cutting-edge **battery storage technology**, offers a flexible, modular solution to renewable energy. Solar panels require significantly less land and present no noise or aesthetic pollution, making them an ideal complement to the Isle of Man’s energy mix.

3. **Geothermal Energy**  
   Another underutilized option is **geothermal energy**, which offers **constant, base-load power** and minimal environmental disruption. This would align with the island’s long-term **sustainability goals** and offer energy security independent of weather patterns.

---

### 4. **Strategic Roadmap to Avoid Onshore Wind**

#### **Year 1: Feasibility Studies and Strategic Alignment**
- Conduct comprehensive **Energy Mix Feasibility Studies** to assess long-term viability of offshore wind, solar, and geothermal alternatives.
- Engage with stakeholders in the tourism and real estate sectors to evaluate potential socio-economic impacts.

#### **Year 2: Investment in Offshore Wind and Solar Technologies**
- Begin **Public-Private Partnerships (PPPs)** to fund offshore wind developments and invest in advanced battery storage technologies for solar.
- Align **regulatory frameworks** to fast-track permits for low-impact, scalable energy solutions.

#### **Year 3: Public Engagement and Branding**
- Launch a **public relations campaign** positioning the Isle of Man as a leader in **low-impact, future-oriented renewable energy**. Highlight the benefits of offshore wind and solar while managing public perception around energy choices.
- Establish **energy innovation hubs** to support local talent and attract global partnerships in sustainable energy R&D.

#### **Year 4: Pilot Projects and Ecosystem Development**
- Execute pilot projects in **offshore wind** and **solar farms**, accompanied by **storage solutions**. Monitor for scalability and impact on the island’s energy security.
- Implement **ecosystem restoration programs** to ensure minimal disruption to local biodiversity.

#### **Year 5: Full-Scale Implementation and Long-Term Sustainability**
- Scale successful pilot projects and integrate them into the national grid.
- Develop long-term partnerships with **energy technology firms** to ensure continuous innovation in renewable energy, emphasizing **zero-disruption technologies**.

---

### 5. **Key Performance Indicators (KPIs)**

- **Energy Mix Diversification:** Track the percentage increase in energy sourced from offshore wind, solar, and geothermal.
- **Community Engagement Metrics:** Measure local satisfaction through surveys and reduced opposition to energy projects.
- **Tourism Impact:** Monitor tourism growth rates and track the impact of energy projects on visitor perceptions.
- **LCOE Reduction:** Achieve a targeted reduction in the **Levelized Cost of Energy** by focusing on high-yield, low-disruption alternatives.

---

### Conclusion

While onshore wind farms are often perceived as a straightforward solution to renewable energy needs, they do not align with the long-term economic and environmental goals of the Isle of Man. The risks—both economic and socio-environmental—outweigh the potential benefits. By focusing on offshore wind, solar, and geothermal energy, the Isle of Man can maintain its **competitive edge** in renewable energy without compromising the island's unique landscape or socio-economic fabric.

Whose report is this and who commissioned it?

[Amadeus]

This is ChatGPT doing a report in the style of McKinsey, but without the huge bill at the end. 

[monasqueen]

What concerns me is that everyone concentrates on how wonderful all of these systems are, but says nothing about what happens when they are at their end of life.

What are the costs of offshore wind farms when they start to fall apart, both in terms of the maritime environment, and in terms of manpower, dismantling vessel/s, removal costs, etc??

How much excess fuel is used by shipping companies having to navigate round them?

What are the "green credentials" of their manufacture and positioning, including the cost of the vehicles/vessels needed to put them into position?

[asitis]

Sadly I think this project already has a momentum of its own, which means that any negative views, no matter their independence and veracity, will be discounted. Another thread will start in a few years time exploring the economic disaster, and why no one tried to fully explore the possible financial outcomes at the outset. A few people are going to bed with a fuzzy warm feeling at their part in saving the planet. We don't do assessment and common sense here, we prefer enquiries after the event !

Edited September 9 by asitis