Lorient Celtic Festival

[Andy Onchan]

1 hour ago, Declan said:

I'm actually a little shocked by this website, which Culture Vannin fund. 

Not only does the history page make no mention of the rock or electronic music made on the Island, which have been since the 60s and 80s respectively. But Performers and Manx Bands section is only the so-called "traditional music" acts, same with the linked Manx Music Spotify Playlist and the Soundcloud page. The Music for sale section is the same it includes on with the blurb ...

"An exciting new CD from America! Carol Walker brings her own unique interpretation to Manx music. The CD features fifteen tunes from her book played beautifully on the Appalachian mountain dulcimer, harp, piano, melodica, upright bass, and vocals. "

But heaven forbid someone uses an electric guitar or synth. 

It feels a little like the Trad Guys have Culture Vannin, Classical Music and Musical Theatre have  the Arts Council and the rest have Soundcheck until they're 18. 

Isn't Culture Vannin Phil Gawne's baby? 

[0bserver]

55 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

To be fair, Culture Vannin has always been meant to concentrate on Manx language and related traditional music, dancing, history and so on.  If there's a shortage of support for some music genres, then criticism should be more directed towards the Arts Council.

Why can't the two of them be combined? There will be overlapping admin areas where costs can be saved. 

I know they pose as independent charities but they're just government quangos

[Declan]

13 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

Isn't Culture Vannin Phil Gawne's baby? 

According to Wiki it was formed in 1982, so he'd have still been at school. But he was Chairman when he was an MHK, which I guess you'd expect. It's @Chris Thomas 's baby now. 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Declan

[Andy Onchan]

1 minute ago, Declan said:

According to Wiki it was formed in 1982, so he'd have still been at school. But he was Chairman when he was an MHK, which I guess you'd expect. It's @Chris Thomas's baby now. 

The point I was making is that he seems to have a lot of influence on the direction of travel within CV and hence what constitutes musical heritage. Clearly the modern idiom doesn't fit in. If it did then there'd be some coverage.

[John Wright]

47 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

Isn't Culture Vannin Phil Gawne's baby? 

 

37 minutes ago, Declan said:

According to Wiki it was formed in 1982, so he'd have still been at school. But he was Chairman when he was an MHK, which I guess you'd expect. It's @Chris Thomas 's baby now. 

 

30 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

The point I was making is that he seems to have a lot of influence on the direction of travel within CV and hence what constitutes musical heritage. Clearly the modern idiom doesn't fit in. If it did then there'd be some coverage.

I think it was more Charles Guard’s baby, more than anyone else. He worked there and was in control for the best part of 25 years, first as Manx Heritage Foundation, and then after the name change to Culture Vannin. Perhaps the original name hints at the preciousness about perceived “traditional” Manx culture, rather than more  modern. ( I agree with Declan that much traditional Manx music, song, dance is a recent reimagining )

It’s still the Manx Heritage Foundation legally, trading as CV. Bit like the Manx Museum & National Trust presents to the world as Manx National Heritage.

44 minutes ago, 0bserver said:

Why can't the two of them be combined? There will be overlapping admin areas where costs can be saved. 

I know they pose as independent charities but they're just government quangos

Good question. However it’s a difficult balance. I’ve served on the Arts Council and two separate spells as a Trustee of MNH. Getting the balance right on the former between Sulby Weavers and a poetry and pints, and a literature festival, or opera, symphony or dance was hugely difficult ( especially when the executive vice chairman was the founder and chief executive of the organisation that consumed half its grants. As for the latter, I ended up on the Finance Committee second time around. Huge spending plans in the short, medium and long term budgets, they got knocked back by Treasury year after year and just got reinserted. I pointed out that they hadn’t enough funds to adequately maintain, refresh  and run the estate they already had, let alone a huge project, which, if they got the capital for, they couldn’t afford to employ staff, heat or turn on the lights. Gave up banging my head against the brick wall and resigned.

[Declan]

7 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

The point I was making is that he seems to have a lot of influence on the direction of travel within CV and hence what constitutes musical heritage. Clearly the modern idiom doesn't fit in. If it did then there'd be some coverage.

I think it's quite clear that Phil's had a positive influence on the Manx Language revival and on keeping alive and bringing back many traditional activities. People shouldn't let the Sloc Road cloud their opinion on that. 

However, my criticism of Culture Vannin in this thread is more nuanced than "the modern idiom doesn't fit in". In fact, I would argue that much of what is presented as "Manx Traditional Music" is modern music, just as much as contempory Manx rock music is (in fact the Manx Rock scene is possably older). It's more one tradition is seen as worthy and the other not. 

[Harry Lamb]

On 8/11/2023 at 3:28 PM, Declan said:

I think it's quite clear that Phil's had a positive influence on the Manx Language revival and on keeping alive and bringing back many traditional activities. People shouldn't let the Sloc Road cloud their opinion on that. 

However, my criticism of Culture Vannin in this thread is more nuanced than "the modern idiom doesn't fit in". In fact, I would argue that much of what is presented as "Manx Traditional Music" is modern music, just as much as contempory Manx rock music is (in fact the Manx Rock scene is possably older). It's more one tradition is seen as worthy and the other not. 

I think in many Western societies popular culture is deemed less worthy than work produced as part of a tradition so Shakespeare better than Corrie etc. (It often is). In the British Isles the English view seems to prevail that nothing is truly 'culture' unless it is difficult and/or boring you shitless - think Paradise Lost, or anything by Harrison Birtwistle, or the way Benjamin Britten took perfectly good folk tunes and ruined them. A lot of popular culture is dross, but so are chunks of Shakespeare and Wordsworth et al. And that's why Manx Gangsta doesn't get a grant

[Barlow]

On 8/11/2023 at 3:28 PM, Declan said:

However, my criticism of Culture Vannin in this thread is more nuanced than "the modern idiom doesn't fit in". In fact, I would argue that much of what is presented as "Manx Traditional Music" is modern music, just as much as contempory Manx rock music is (in fact the Manx Rock scene is possably older). It's more one tradition is seen as worthy and the other not. 

What you could do is start a group of like minded people who wish to promote, or who are simply interested in, modern Manx music. Once you have enough support apply to the Isle of Man Government and other sources for funding.