Heritage Railways Chopped?

[0bserver]

7 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

As has been previously stated, the fares are already extremely expensive. It’s fine balance between giving the customer what they want at an expensive price and extorting them out of the market. 

The fares aren't actually that high when you compare them to other old railways in the UK or Europe. Many of the people travelling are on free residents passes (well you pay a fixed amount for unlimited travel). There's no need for that. Just pay for the journey you take.

As a comparison the Snowdon Railway is £50.00 retuen for an adult single or £40.00 for a child.

Douglas - Snaefell return is just £18.00 for adults or £9 for a child. 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by 0bserver

[Roxanne]

18 minutes ago, 0bserver said:

It wouldn't really be a disgrace. It would be a minor inconvenience.

A disgrace is something like not being able to fund a pay award for nurses. 

It’s more than an inconvenience. As before, just look back at the regret about doing away with the rail lines elsewhere. Can you imagine the draw of visitors that would come here to travel all over the island by steam train? We shot ourselves in the foot over that decision. 

[Roxanne]

5 minutes ago, 0bserver said:

The fares aren't actually that high when you compare them to other old railways in the UK or Europe. Many of the people travelling are on free residents passes (well you pay a fixed amount for unlimited travel). There's no need for that. Just pay for the journey you take.

It’s £6 for a adult to go there and back on the horse tram 1.6 miles each way. £3 for a child. That’s £18 for a family of two adults and two children from summerland to the gaiety. 

What price do you think it could be increased to to ensure people still use it bearing in mind it takes half an hour to walk along the promenade? 

[0bserver]

3 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

It’s more than an inconvenience. As before, just look back at the regret about doing away with the rail lines elsewhere. Can you imagine the draw of visitors that would come here to travel all over the island by steam train? We shot ourselves in the foot over that decision. 

I don't share that view. The railways were closed because they were losing so much money and were both financial and economic basket cases. 

If they were still around today they would just dilute the trade from the Port Erin train and lose even more money as they would need to be subsidised. 

The most sustainable solution is to get them at least breaking even so they are no longer reliant on taxpayer funds that no longer exist.

[0bserver]

Just now, Roxanne said:

It’s £6 for a adult to go there and back on the horse tram 1.6 miles each way. £3 for a child. That’s £18 for a family of two adults and two children from summerland to the gaiety. 

What price do you think it could be increased to to ensure people still use it bearing in mind it takes half an hour to walk along the promenade? 

It's not just a ride from Summerland to the Gaiety, if the horse tram supporters are to be believed then it's a world class, one of a kind historic attraction - surely that's something people will pay money to use? 

In terms of cost, say £10 return? They need to work out the overheads and devise a fare based on that.

Cut the number of trams running - they seem to be every 30 minutes at the moment. Make it 6 trams a day and people will pay the higher fares. 

There's a brilliant little train/tram in Majorca similar to the Manx Electric and that is €25 single or €50 return.... these things are expensive by their very nature. 

[Roger Mexico]

12 minutes ago, 0bserver said:

As a comparison the Snowdon Railway is £50.00 retuen for an adult single or £40.00 for a child.

Douglas - Snaefell return is just £18.00 for adults or £9 for a child. 

The Snowdon price is only for the "Heritage Steam Experience" though and at the height of Summer.  The more normal Adult price is £32-£38.  And given that the Snowdon journey takes twice as long - 60 minutes rather than the 30 to get to the top of Snaefell - you'd expect it to cost twice as much.  So the prices are roughly comparable.

[Andy Onchan]

https://gef.im/news/politics/concern-review-has-pre-determined-outcome-38687/

[0bserver]

5 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

https://gef.im/news/politics/concern-review-has-pre-determined-outcome-38687/

The outcome is pre-determined to a certain extent. Either they start breaking even or they will close as there's simply no more money to subsidise them. 

Perhaps those are the terms Alf Cannan should have set out. 

Another option could be to raise the rate of VAT on hotels from the current 5% to 20% and use that extra money to pay for these heritage attractions?

[0bserver]

14 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

The Snowdon price is only for the "Heritage Steam Experience" though and at the height of Summer.  The more normal Adult price is £32-£38.  And given that the Snowdon journey takes twice as long - 60 minutes rather than the 30 to get to the top of Snaefell - you'd expect it to cost twice as much.  So the prices are roughly comparable.

The journey from Douglas - Snaedell isn't 30 minutes, it's an hour. 

The Snaefell trams are a world class heritage attraction and the only electric mountain railway in the British Isles, that's easily comparability to a 'heritage steam experience'. 

[P.K.]

As I have mentioned previously these days the island's heritage is only relevant to less than half of the population. 

In 2021 the number of "Country of Birth IOM" stood at 49.6%. However for this exercise the numbers are being skewed by those being born on the island growing at approx 600 per year.

Personally I am uncomfortable with those for whom our heritage means very little deciding on what future, if any, it should have...

[0bserver]

1 minute ago, P.K. said:

As I have mentioned previously these days the island's heritage is only relevant to less than half of the population. 

In 2021 the number of "Country of Birth IOM" stood at 49.6%. However for this exercise the numbers are being skewed by those being born on the island growing at approx 600 per year.

Personally I am uncomfortable with those for whom our heritage means very little deciding on what future, if any, it should have...

The heritage of the Isle of Man becomes the heritage of anyone who chooses to live and work here. 

Simply being born here doesn't give anyone a deciding vote on anything, nor should it. 

[P.K.]

1 minute ago, 0bserver said:

The heritage of the Isle of Man becomes the heritage of anyone who chooses to live and work here. 

Do you have any evidence to back up this supposition?

[Jarndyce]

8 minutes ago, P.K. said:

As I have mentioned previously these days the island's heritage is only relevant to less than half of the population. 

In 2021 the number of "Country of Birth IOM" stood at 49.6%. However for this exercise the numbers are being skewed by those being born on the island growing at approx 600 per year.

Personally I am uncomfortable with those for whom our heritage means very little deciding on what future, if any, it should have...

Of course, you’re entitled to your opinion: but, as a “come-over” who is interested in the island’s heritage and what happens to it, I think you’re talking bollocks (IMHO).

(Perhaps you feel that your opinion has more value than mine, since you were born here…)

[0bserver]

5 minutes ago, P.K. said:

Do you have any evidence to back up this supposition?

Anyone who comes here becomes a part of island life. We have a rich culture made of up incomers over the century. We have a vibrant community of people from all over the world... you can't just box culture and heritage into the bits that suit your own world view... the 'Manx' trains and trams are largely from Manchester and Liverpool. The railways were built by Irish navvies... 

[Declan]

1 minute ago, 0bserver said:

The heritage of the Isle of Man becomes the heritage of anyone who chooses to live and work here. 

Simply being born here doesn't give anyone a deciding vote on anything, nor should it. 

Rather ironic that the suggestion that heritage only matters to the Manx born comes from someone who spent their working life in the UK. 

I had a boss, 20 years ago, who lived on the Island with his wife for a year then emigrated to Australia. But during that time they had a baby. So that child, according to the PK equation would have a greater say than a baby born to Manx parents who were living for a short time in the UK, no matter how long the baby lives and works on the Island.