Heritage Railways Chopped?

[Kopek]

..........unless you fall out and into the hedge............?

[asitis]

Supporter of the railways or trams etc, it matters not, the bottom line is, the Government have basically bankrupted us. Poorly run fantasy schemes and ego have ruined the island and the dawn of reality is starting to bite !. We bought a shipping company with a view to taking dividends ( for far too much) but the reality of that is, we are 300 million into it and have done exactly the same as we pilloried other owners for i.e. load it with debt ! We are still paying for a power station which was totally out of financial control and now jump wallet first into the pit of renewables, nothing we have done in recent times has bore a realistic price tag. The net result is that nice things to have are now going to be starved of funds as indeed are many essentials. Governments and participants in Governments over the past thirty years should hang their heads in shame !

The summer season will not save the tourist attractions and it doesn't look like the taxpayers can either.

[0bserver]

8 hours ago, Max Power said:

 

As an aside, I have noticed that every electric tram and horse tram I have seen this weekend has been pretty much full!

It's ok the trams and trains being full but not so much if they are losing money. 

[0bserver]

7 hours ago, Omobono said:

it would be criminal to get rid of the heritage railways , far too  many suits involved and costs lumped in with the bus's , more managers then soft Mick   same with MNH  just another excuse to overload the system with cilvil servants and massive pensions , the bus's should have been privatised long ago   with subvention from government for pensioners and children's travel to school  , I guess if they close the railway to Ramsey then there will to two MHK's looking for  new jobs  in 2 years time , Northern people can be very unforgiving and lets face it they have nothing else !

Would the people of the North rather have a functioning health service or am old tram? 

The inverse of your idea makes more sense. Privatise the railways to volunteers and keep the buses in Government ownership... they provide an essential form of public transport to many. The same is not true of the railways.

I genuinely think people don't recognise just how grave the island's finances are right now. 

[Manxman2000]

The Isle of Man was a major tourist destination, but that was back in the days of the Mills in Lancashire and the wakes weeks. Douglas promenade was full of holiday makers, but now its full of nothing. the game is over. The hotels are all expensive, once the boarding houses kept the holiday makers and all was well.  Now the horse tram stops at the Sefton and the government (if you can call it that) is looking at shutting down half of the steam railway and the MER. how short sighted.  In Wales, even with a shit government the tourism sector is doing very well. The trams go all the way to the top of the great arm, the Snowdon Mountain Railway has had a close look at what it is doing, made changes and making money, still going to the top of the mountain. The Talyllyn Railway even made money during the pandemic by reorganising not curtailing services.  and in recent years the Ffestiniog Railway has more than doubled its length. even the sea Zoo is making a good profit.  all the attractions are doing well so why is the Isle of Man not. The Isle of Man is unfriendly to visitors, to get to the island is expensive, the choice of accomodation is poor and every thing else is a rip off.  so close down half of the railways and watch another group of visitors go elsewhere. The Manx government is less use than a town council. Even Derek Hatton was better at running Liverpool than Cannon and his group of over paid useless MHK's.  no one in their right mind would spend almost £100mil on a part time sea terminal and 78mil on a boat that would be better suited Condor.  in many places the island looks derelict. if this government keep going as they are the money will run out and they will have to sell the steam trains and trams off island to make some cash, to pay themselves of course. 

[Roxanne]

9 hours ago, Max Power said:

As an aside, I have noticed that every electric tram and horse tram I have seen this weekend has been pretty much full!

I don’t have much of an opinion about heritage railways one way or another but as someone who walks past the laxey station 2/3 times a day I can tell you that there’s never less than 80/100 queuing for the mountain tram and the rest of the station is bouncing. Far more than I’ve ever seen it. The man in the cafe looks wiped out at the end of every day. 

They’re all staying somewhere. They’re all paying to stay and they’re spending money in shops, cafes and bars. 

I know the amount they’re spending is in no way commensurate with the amount of money it costs to run, but surely it’s worth something? 

[Non-Believer]

6 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

I don’t have much of an opinion about heritage railways one way or another but as someone who walks past the laxey station 2/3 times a day I can tell you that there’s never less than 80/100 queuing for the mountain tram and the rest of the station is bouncing. Far more than I’ve ever seen it. The man in the cafe looks wiped out at the end of every day. 

They’re all staying somewhere. They’re all paying to stay and they’re spending money in shops, cafes and bars. 

I know the amount they’re spending is in no way commensurate with the amount of money it costs to run, but surely it’s worth something? 

The trams I was on a couple of weeks back were full, certainly Laxey to Douglas and Laxey - Snaefell, Laxey to Ramsey perhaps a little fewer. How many of the passengers were locals though, I wouldn't like to say but the number of people who got on and off at the small "local" halts might suggest that some are actually still using the trams as "transport - transport" rather than as a tourism attraction?

[manxman1980]

I have said it before on other threads around this topic but if we start to cut the heritage railways further or close them completely then the Isle of Man risks becoming even more of an irrelevance and less appealing to any visitors.

The amazing thing about the Island is that we have so much history contained in a small space that is accessible.  You would be hard pushed to have such a variety outside of a major city like London or York.  

It may seem like an opportunity to cut costs but you risk doing far more damage in the long run.  

If the Island is so short of money perhaps it is time to revisit taxation (both income and corporate).

[Roxanne]

14 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

I have said it before on other threads around this topic but if we start to cut the heritage railways further or close them completely then the Isle of Man risks becoming even more of an irrelevance and less appealing to any visitors.

The amazing thing about the Island is that we have so much history contained in a small space that is accessible.  You would be hard pushed to have such a variety outside of a major city like London or York.  

It may seem like an opportunity to cut costs but you risk doing far more damage in the long run.  

If the Island is so short of money perhaps it is time to revisit taxation (both income and corporate).

Just consider how often we have regretted the decision to close down the other rail links on island and how much discussion there has been about reinstating them.

I think you’re right. Apart from the TT and MGP, the railways probably bring in the next biggest amount of visitors. 

Maybe we need to keep funding  it after all. The next few generations would be so sad if we did away with it as we have been about the Island steam rail links. 

[manxman1980]

2 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

Just consider how often we have regretted the decision to close down the other rail links on island and how much discussion there has been about reinstating them.

I think you’re right. Apart from the TT and MGP, the railways probably bring in the next biggest amount of visitors. 

Maybe we need to keep funding  it after all. The next few generations would be so sad if we did away with it as we have been about the Island steam rail links. 

Agreed.

If we insisted on every heritage site making money then they would all be closed down which would be a disgrace.

[0bserver]

2 hours ago, Roxanne said:

I don’t have much of an opinion about heritage railways one way or another but as someone who walks past the laxey station 2/3 times a day I can tell you that there’s never less than 80/100 queuing for the mountain tram and the rest of the station is bouncing. Far more than I’ve ever seen it. The man in the cafe looks wiped out at the end of every day. 

With demand like that then there's plenty of scope to hike the fares and cover costs. There's no need to have a taxpayer subsidy in that case. 

 

52 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

 

If the Island is so short of money perhaps it is time to revisit taxation (both income and corporate).

Are you suggesting increasing the tax burden on already struggling Manx families? Trying to increase revenue by £150 - £200m through increased taxes will destroy an already fragile economy.

There's no need to close the railways, simply increase the fares so the principle of user pays applies. Fair fares if you will  

It's not really a question of how much we should or shouldn't subsidise them - there's no choice soon. The reserves are being burned out at an alarming rate and something will have to give. Government simply has to get smaller.

There's no reason why they can't keep the trains but have say one train instead of the 4 or 5 they have at the moment. 

Edited August 14, 2023 by 0bserver

[0bserver]

18 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

Agreed.

If we insisted on every heritage site making money then they would all be closed down which would be a disgrace.

It wouldn't really be a disgrace. It would be a minor inconvenience.

A disgrace is something like not being able to fund a pay award for nurses. 

[Roxanne]

17 minutes ago, 0bserver said:

With demand like that then there's plenty of scope to hike the fares and cover costs.

As has been previously stated, the fares are already extremely expensive. It’s fine balance between giving the customer what they want at an expensive price and extorting them out of the market. 

[Roxanne]

36 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

Agreed.

If we insisted on every heritage site making money then they would all be closed down which would be a disgrace.

That said, I’m not sure this is the time for investment in new ventures either. 

The Peggy for example. 

[asitis]

36 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

If we insisted on every heritage site making money then they would all be closed down which would be a disgrace.

I agree, however as my earlier post suggested unless the shower of shit we are governed by get a grip, this will be inevitable !