Armed police dealing with incident around Railway Station, North Quay roads closed

[Anyone]

14 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

I'm not even going to dignify that with a response.

Well have a look at Police vs Miners in the 80’s. I’m sure there are others. They might well be our finest but some of their moments are far from fine. Mind how you go as I’ll be watching you. Not me that is but the constabulary on us. 

[Roxanne]

For balance, it really is the minority who do these awful things. The rapists, the sex offenders, the bullies, the gun ho's. The majority of people who go into the police go because they want to make a difference. It's just sad that recruitment isn't able to weed out the bad uns before they go on to do such awful damage, but then, they are very good at hiding their true selves. Even the good ones can succumb to not being as courteous as they might be. Like teachers, after a few years, they get burned out and jaded. I've worked with teachers who's should never ever been allowed in a classroom but were there hanging on for as big a pension as they could accrue. No doubt it is the same for certain police personnel too. As time goes on, and as fewer and fewer want to join the force then we need to expect that more and more bad apples will work their way through, down, in the main, to the numbers being required and unsuitable personnel being deemed to be better than no personnel at all.  It's very possible we shall look back on these days as the good old days - almost certainly in fact. If we have a road accident they are there, or if we are assaulted or have our house burned down.. They are our first port of call. I don't subscribe to the view that they are all bad, not all all, but equally so, for them to argue that mistakes don't happen is equally futile.

[Derek Flint]

On 8/23/2023 at 10:10 AM, Two-lane said:

The idea that it is necessary to have Armed Response Vehicles roaming the streets of the Isle of Man is absolutely bizarre. There are people who fantasise about weapons, and it seems there are a few in the police forces.

It's about response times, and Article 2.

It's not that long ago that at certain times of the day, it could take up to an hour to get an ARV out of the back gates. Where there is a threat to deal with, that is indefensible. We worked hard to improve that, and I've no doubt that it is much better. But really, it needs to be immediate. 

I recall my first Armed Policing Command course with Kent Police. One of the directing staff said something that had stuck with me. It was from whilst he was operating as a force incident manager, and he had a little sticker on his screen. It simply served as a reminder, and said;

'DO I NEED GUNS.'

'DO I NEED GUNS NOW?'

Sometimes, wait is the correct option. Often, someone needs you to stand between them and the most profound danger. If it is the latter, and people came to harm as a result of poor response times, youd be quite rightly pilloried. And reputationally, the isle of Man would be on News at Ten for all the wrong reasons.

 

 

23 hours ago, Anyone said:

Well have a look at Police vs Miners in the 80’s. I’m sure there are others. They might well be our finest but some of their moments are far from fine. Mind how you go as I’ll be watching you. Not me that is but the constabulary on us. 

Yep, there's some absolutely shocking examples. Different world today. The job is still learning, slowly, but very few don't want it to be better.

[Max Power]

On 8/23/2023 at 10:05 PM, Anyone said:

Well have a look at Police vs Miners in the 80’s. I’m sure there are others. They might well be our finest but some of their moments are far from fine. Mind how you go as I’ll be watching you. Not me that is but the constabulary on us. 

There was some really awkward stuff going on in the 80s!

The miners strike looked like a war, the police attacks on the festival crowds, branded as “Travellers” for effect. There always seemed to be coach loads of riot police parked up at weekends when I lived in London. I actually saw the police start a riot out of nothing at Silverstone village as they decided to move a crowd back to the campsite! Mounted police, mayhem and destruction everywhere. It looked like a battle scene from the English civil war with Roundheads galloping around.

What could be called aggressive policing, all okayed by the media and Thatcher government. It was appalling and I realised then that Senior Police and governments lie through their teeth to justify their actions, culminating in Hillsborough!

[TheTeapot]

Imagine what kind of a brain someone must have to attack people under orders who just wanted to go to work.

Edited August 25, 2023 by TheTeapot

[Anyone]

23 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

It's about response times, and Article 2.

It's not that long ago that at certain times of the day, it could take up to an hour to get an ARV out of the back gates. Where there is a threat to deal with, that is indefensible. We worked hard to improve that, and I've no doubt that it is much better. But really, it needs to be immediate. 

I recall my first Armed Policing Command course with Kent Police. One of the directing staff said something that had stuck with me. It was from whilst he was operating as a force incident manager, and he had a little sticker on his screen. It simply served as a reminder, and said;

'DO I NEED GUNS.'

'DO I NEED GUNS NOW?'

Sometimes, wait is the correct option. Often, someone needs you to stand between them and the most profound danger. If it is the latter, and people came to harm as a result of poor response times, youd be quite rightly pilloried. And reputationally, the isle of Man would be on News at Ten for all the wrong reasons.

 

 

Yep, there's some absolutely shocking examples. Different world today. The job is still learning, slowly, but very few don't want it to be better.

Hillsborough is one , steel plant strikes. The thing is if you give any institution too much power they will abuse that power. And I’m afraid that is in effect the police. 

[alpha-acid]

16 minutes ago, Anyone said:

Hillsborough is one , steel plant strikes. The thing is if you give any institution too much power they will abuse that power. And I’m afraid that is in effect the police. 

I bet if you needed them in a hurry you would not be complaining though

[Anyone]

I’ve never called them , best thing is never engage with the polis; they can’t be trusted. 

[alpha-acid]

59 minutes ago, Anyone said:

I’ve never called them , best thing is never engage with the polis; they can’t be trusted. 

Your choice you may regret some day. I hope you don't

[Anyone]

I don’t recall speaking to you .

[Anyone]

7 hours ago, Max Power said:

There was some really awkward stuff going on in the 80s!

The miners strike looked like a war, the police attacks on the festival crowds, branded as “Travellers” for effect. There always seemed to be coach loads of riot police parked up at weekends when I lived in London. I actually saw the police start a riot out of nothing at Silverstone village as they decided to move a crowd back to the campsite! Mounted police, mayhem and destruction everywhere. It looked like a battle scene from the English civil war with Roundheads galloping around.

What could be called aggressive policing, all okayed by the media and Thatcher government. It was appalling and I realised then that Senior Police and governments lie through their teeth to justify their actions, culminating in Hillsborough!

Ach nonsense , I’m sure Flinty will be on here soon to say different times and stuff learned. No bad apples now just the odd few thousand and most of the Met. And then you have Police Scotland. They decided to have mounted police at an Aberdeen V St Mirren game at Piddodrie😂

[Kopek]

1 hour ago, alpha-acid said:

I bet if you needed them in a hurry you would not be complaining though

  Of course not! That is the selfish response of wanting their response for oneself but not for anyone's' else's requirements?

In this situation, would the vulnerable person have been calmed by an armed police response or further agitated by  such a response?

Guns and tazers, so many tales of misuse, is it the way to face a vulnerable person???

[thommo2010]

7 hours ago, Kopek said:

  Of course not! That is the selfish response of wanting their response for oneself but not for anyone's' else's requirements?

In this situation, would the vulnerable person have been calmed by an armed police response or further agitated by  such a response?

Guns and tazers, so many tales of misuse, is it the way to face a vulnerable person???

Depends does that 'vulnerable' person have any history of violence or do they have weapons on them. 

It's easy sitting behind a computer to have all the answers but when you're actually having to deal with it it's a bit difference

[Derek Flint]

21 hours ago, Anyone said:

Hillsborough is one , steel plant strikes. The thing is if you give any institution too much power they will abuse that power. And I’m afraid that is in effect the police. 

Hillsborough was a command failing from a less sophisticated time. I cover it in chapter one of my book. 

 

Some of the behaviour following the tragedy was utterly contemptible.

18 hours ago, Anyone said:

Ach nonsense , I’m sure Flinty will be on here soon to say different times and stuff learned. No bad apples now just the odd few thousand and most of the Met. And then you have Police Scotland. They decided to have mounted police at an Aberdeen V St Mirren game at Piddodrie😂

Nope. The service continues to fail, and fail again. One of my lectures is on armed policing command failures.  There are still people ill suited and poorly equipped to lead complex operations.

And it's not just the cops

https://www.navylookout.com/the-f-35-accident-report-a-reality-check-for-uk-carrier-strike/

 

[Passing Time]

21 hours ago, alpha-acid said:

I bet if you needed them in a hurry you would not be complaining though

You’re never likely to get them in a hurry