Armed police dealing with incident around Railway Station, North Quay roads closed

[Two-lane]

I do not think that is a matter of whether or not the police have a difficult or occasionally dangerous job, but whether they have practicality and common sense. In the QE2 event, they displayed an absence of common sense. That does cause me concern.

I have occasionally been at an event when the fire alarms have gone off. Everyone knew that it was just some arsehole being a problem, but nevertheless formed an orderly queue and filed slowly out of the main exit.

If I had been at QE2 and I heard of the contents of the bomb threat, I would have joined the queue out of the main entrance.

If I thought it was a real threat, I would have been out of the nearest ground-floor window and behind the first concrete wall I could find.  Going out through the main entrance would have been the last resort - for reasons that are obvious to me.

The following photographs are of the police responding to a bomb threat at a school in the Isle of Man, in Bulgaria and in India. One shows people taking a bomb threat seriously, and one shows the police thinking they are a Los Angeles SWAT team.

[HeliX]

But what if the bomb had a mental health crisis?

[Two-lane]

5 minutes ago, HeliX said:

But what if the bomb had a mental health crisis?

Ha. John Carpenter's film Dark Star - about an intelligent bomb that has doubts. "Let there be light". End of film.

[Dirty Buggane]

Classic, existential argument with a thermonuclear device about I think therfore I am and goodnight Vienna. BOOM. Classic   

[Derek Flint]

On 8/17/2023 at 10:11 AM, Dirty Buggane said:

Why the balaclava's, don't see the a police(unless undercover oprative's) in the UK wearing them. whats next bandanas

Two reasons. One is the risk of burns from casings and specialist munitions. The other is it provides a degree of anonymity for a very dangerous specialism. We've avoided showing faces on specialist ops for many years

On 8/18/2023 at 12:10 AM, HeliX said:

Well therein lies the problem. When you're really excited to use your new hammer, everything looks like a nail.

It's nothing new but vastly improved 

On 8/18/2023 at 2:51 PM, Gladys said:

Do we know anything about this case which would indicate that an armed response was inappropriate?   There must be protocols which determine when an armed response should be mounted.  

As it happens, it would seem that this matter was dealt with without any mishap or injury to anyone, so I don't know what the  issue is really. 

 

The criteria for deployment is set very low. That means these days we go early, unlike when I first started in armed policing in the 90's, when we went last!

On 8/18/2023 at 3:43 PM, HeliX said:

The police used to respond to incidents like this without deploying armed police. Before they started taking after the yanks and getting all excited about being allowed to play with guns.

See above. Also see art 2 HRA.

On 8/18/2023 at 4:36 PM, Gladys said:

I do agree with you that the deployment should be reviewed by an independent body.  But who? Possibly a UK police force? 

The officers commanding and being deployed are all accredited to the UK standards. Each deployment is reviewed

23 hours ago, HeliX said:

The police solve a pathetic amount of crime, and they prevent even less.

Incorrect. Detection rate far and away the best in the British Islands.

Anyway, you can all practice at being tactical firearms commanders. Just Google 'APP Armed Policing' and pretty much everything you need to know is on there.

[Dirty Buggane]

Afraid the shell case theory not holding much water, The General Electric XM 134 mini gun is spewing out casings at a rate from 30to90 casings/second and include incendiary for night shoots  not many people wearing balaclava's. Or do you have an answer for that.?

Edited August 20, 2023 by Dirty Buggane

[Derek Flint]

4 hours ago, Dirty Buggane said:

Afraid the shell case theory not holding much water, The General Electric XM 134 mini gun is spewing out casings at a rate from 30to90 casings/second and include incendiary for night shoots  not many people wearing balaclava's. Or do you have an answer for that.?

Yes I do.

 

The Health and Safety at Work Act 1974.

And the XM isn't ejecting cases a few.cm from your face.

You're welcome.

[0bserver]

6 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

Two reasons. One is the risk of burns from casings and specialist munitions. The other is it provides a degree of anonymity for a very dangerous specialism. We've avoided showing faces on specialist ops for many years

It's nothing new but vastly improved 

The criteria for deployment is set very low. That means these days we go early, unlike when I first started in armed policing in the 90's, when we went last!

See above. Also see art 2 HRA.

The officers commanding and being deployed are all accredited to the UK standards. Each deployment is reviewed

Incorrect. Detection rate far and away the best in the British Islands.

Anyway, you can all practice at being tactical firearms commanders. Just Google 'APP Armed Policing' and pretty much everything you need to know is on there.

Please can you stop interrupting the thread with facts and experience.

[Blade Runner]

Just a bunch of slack jawed faggots around here.

[Dirty Buggane]

You need to chew on this, will make you a darn sexual tyrannosaurus.

[Two-lane]

8 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

The other is it provides a degree of anonymity for a very dangerous specialism. We've avoided showing faces on specialist ops for many years

This is the Isle of Man. During the depths of covid I was wandering the streets of Ramsey with a mask up to the bottom of my eyes and a woolly hat pulled down to the top of my eyes. Someone on the other side of the street waved and called out my name.

If you really want to know who the SWAT team was, probably the best place to ask is the Manx Arms or similar (public bar).

Anonymity in the Isle of Man.....

And don't forget that they like to be in the news - which says something about their psychology. They may be able to hit a target but are they capable of making sensible decisions?

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/cop26-police-caught-sharing-instagram-25390240

[Jetfour]

Could be worse.  Join the Police Service of Northern Ireland and they will announce your identity on the internet!

[Passing Time]

On 8/19/2023 at 10:56 AM, Steve_Christian said:

Or you could argue that deploying armed police has ensured no un-armed police officers have been killed or seriously injured by an armed individual- and the deterrence effect of armed police arriving at an incident has defused the situation appropriately. Further- clearly they are well trained and disciplined as they haven’t had to fire off a round, which is obviously always a last resort. But if you’re a police hater you won’t care about any of this. I do chuckle - police haters are very vocal until they’ve been a victim of crime, then the expect the police on their doorstep immediately and need them to do all the things they moan about they do (solve crime).

Actually, some police haters are exactly that because they have been a victim of crime and the police have done sod all about it

[slinkydevil]

On 8/19/2023 at 10:56 AM, Steve_Christian said:

Or you could argue that deploying armed police has ensured no un-armed police officers have been killed or seriously injured by an armed individual- and the deterrence effect of armed police arriving at an incident has defused the situation appropriately. Further- clearly they are well trained and disciplined as they haven’t had to fire off a round, which is obviously always a last resort. But if you’re a police hater you won’t care about any of this. I do chuckle - police haters are very vocal until they’ve been a victim of crime, then the expect the police on their doorstep immediately and need them to do all the things they moan about they do (solve crime).

I'm ex-Regiment, Royal Marines, SEAL Team 3, Delta Force, Green Beret, Légion étrangère, Cub Scouts (Milton Keynes) with 31 tours of Afghanistan and 2.5 tours of Ramsey.

As well as being sworn to secrecy, I find it hard to talk to anyone about my past, apart from nearly everyone who comes in the pub and the local Costa, but I agree the IOM Police force is probably the best in the world. 

[Roger Mexico]

On 8/19/2023 at 4:41 PM, Steve_Christian said:

This thread is hilarious - full of ill informed nonsense. Walk a mile in a person’s shoes… I don’t think you realise how few police there are, what they have to deal with every shift and the risks they face - yes even on our little island, as they deal with the 1% that seek to break the law and do harm. 

We know how many police there are - the Chief Constable's Report tells us it was 223 at the end of March (with 8 trainees qualifying in April).  That's equivalent to 265 per 100,000 head of population, which the HoC Research Briefing informs us is higher than every police force in England and Wales, except for the Met (396) and Merseyside (284).  Given that the Isle of Man is seen as rather more peaceable than those areas, they're probably not as stretched as some, let's say.

It's this sort of ridiculous rhetoric compared to the mundane reality of policing that really needs to stop.  In actual fact policing isn't a particularly dangerous job compared to say construction or farming.  It may have its problems and complexities, but that variety is one of the reasons that people are attracted to the job, or at least it ought to be.  The last thing we need is recruits who think the job is about poncing about in balaclavas or police procedures that impose a one-size-fits-all approach to any crisis, irrespective of the facts.