HOPs

[jackwhite]

10 minutes ago, Manxman1234 said:

Not seen planning applications in window or on government planning websites that list applications. Nothing since Nov last year for change of use? Surely they knew they would need signage before opened? 
 

if your their spokes person and calling their potential customers arm chair experts and trolls, then you possibly need to rethink your approach as it won’t do anything to attract customers who read this. Telling people who may have frequented the front porch it’s not for them, is once again not doing HOPS any favours, Customers drinking habits can change depending on circumstances and who they drink with and the reason for socialising.  Someone who goes to Jaks for the footy, Front porch for live music, may also like HOPS when out with a business client or partner, or for a quiet catch up with a friend. 
 

personally I would prefer to pay more for a premium spirit, and try new drinks, so this is why I asked initial question, although my choice of bar does vary depending on situation.
 

as I said I hope it succeeds. 

They knew they would need a whole host of things before opening. They've done the absolute essentials. 

Lots of people also knew about the bar. They knew they weren't quite where they wanted to be so have gone for a 'soft opening. They also didn't want to get overwhelmed in the process. As far as I'm concerned, they've done what they set out to do. 

When you look at demographics in hospitality, most people are usually in one 'camp'. For example 2 opposites, the one who wants the cheapest pint possible v someone who's willing to pay a premium for a craft beer. 

There are a handful of 'chameleons' but they're few and far between. My point is The Front Porch is a sports bar with loud music on later on. This place is much more relaxed. They might show the football for you. They are opening to accommodate the Rugby World Cup for example. But the common description is 'relaxed', which is the complete opposite of how I would describe The Front Porch on a Saturday.

[Manxman1234]

7 minutes ago, Flubbergump said:

Didn't do herself any favours over the whole criticism of businesses opening during the Jubilee, then doing it herself. 

Remember that, some businesses are excellent at social media and others alienate themselves from Customers, with unnecessary posts and comments. She definitely didn’t help herself with that 

[Manxman1234]

4 minutes ago, Amadeus said:

Tried it yesterday and rather like it. Finally a place with decent whiskeys, and the other booze he sells is also nice. 

Thanks Will need to give it a try, along with Frank Matchams

 

[Happier diner]

5 minutes ago, Manxman1234 said:

Thanks Will need to give it a try, along with Frank Matchams

 

They definitely need to make it look and feel a bit more welcoming. We will give it a try. Walked past 3 times Saturday early evening and we weren't even sure if it was a bar or not. 

Do you need planning for a bill board sign outside? 

I don't think matchums will be our kind of place. Mindst you we said that about the porch and we don't mind that now. 

[Manxman1234]

Just now, Happier diner said:

They definitely need to make it look and feel a bit more welcoming. We will give it a try. Walked past 3 times Saturday early evening and we weren't even sure if it was a bar or not. 

Do you need planning for a bill board sign outside? 

I don't think matchums will be our kind of place. Mindst you we said that about the porch and we don't mind that now. 

that was my point, from outside doesn’t look welcoming and if want for me seeing it on social media it looked like coffee shop.
 

Unless the signs brightly illuminated, or massively different to what was there before, then they should have been able to at least put the name up above it 

there is no planning application advertised that I could see and nothing on government website so maybe not long been put in for.

 

 

[Amadeus]

They’re looking to get outside seating at the front which always helps to drive people in. Enjoyed trying their wares. Will certainly be back and I hardly ever go out anymore. 

[CrazyDave]

1 hour ago, jackwhite said:

There is an element of the speak easy vibe. There is a well known bar in NYC that is hidden in a telephone box. I can only imagine the Manx view of that. 

It's not a hobby as such and something they want to make full time. They aren't in a position to do that, yet. 

 

Have you ever applied for planning? It takes around 2/3 months usually. There is at the very least a publicity period of 3 weeks then another appeal period of 3 weeks. By the time you factor in all the other bits it's usually around the timeframe indicated, as a minimum. That's without any delays or objections.

Again, they should open on a bank holiday Monday, having been open all week on their time off, some nights up until 1am, just because you wanted to go? So they should work for 10 days solid, without one single day break?

Why am I defensive? Because it's tiring listening to armchair experts talk nonsense when they haven't actually the foggiest idea. They spend lots of time talking to customers. They've tried various other forms of engagement and worked very hard to even get to this stage. So yes, it does get a bit grating. That said, I've stopped reading Facebook for the same reason, because everyone is an expert all of a sudden. 

Also one final thing, if you're used to The Front Porch, then this place may not to be your liking. They are very different concepts. 

Yes I have applied for planning many times.  As far as I can see these haven’t for any signage yet.  Here is a hint.  It speeds it up if you apply for it before you need it.

As for the comment about us spending our money in the Front Porch instead.  Just wow.

We are quite capable of enjoying a sports bar, or a wine bar, or a cocktail bar, or The Albert or The Market depending on our mood and which one can be arsed to be open.

Not that it’s any of your business or that anyone cares but as a couple we spend well in excess of £500 a week averaged out over the year in bars, clubs and restaurants all over Britain.  Based on your snobby comment we won’t be spending any in this one or suggesting that our friends do.

To my untrained eye they should have sorted a few things out before opening rather than having you making excuses for them.

Cheers.

[The Voice of Reason]

It’s the cigar thing I don’t get.

Only a very small percentage of people in the UK  smoke cigars, much less at £20 a pop  I would imagine.

My experience over the years is that those pubs/ bars that have smoking facilities.  ( say as the Royal George in Ramsey did - undercover, seated and heated about as welcoming as you could get) you have seen them utilized less and less. 
And when you do it is cigarette smokers using them. I don’t recall seeing any cigar smokers using any such facilities.

But I assume the owners of HOPs, have done their research.

I am sure I am not the demographic they are aiming at but I see on their FB page some of the beers they are selling are £9 a pint . 

But I can get a pint of Timothy Taylor’s Landlord ale ( nectar, never tasted better) in the winner of the regional CAMRA pub of the year for less than half of that

But I do wish the owners every success. We do need diversity in the hospitality market

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by The Voice of Reason
Adjustment re beer pricing. May be slightly wrong. Not sure

[Manxman1234]

7 minutes ago, Amadeus said:

They’re looking to get outside seating at the front which always helps to drive people in. Enjoyed trying their wares. Will certainly be back and I hardly ever go out anymore. 

Reasonably priced 

[Manxman1234]

17 minutes ago, CrazyDave said:

Yes I have applied for planning many times.  As far as I can see these haven’t for any signage yet.  Here is a hint.  It speeds it up if you apply for it before you need it.

As for the comment about us spending our money in the Front Porch instead.  Just wow.

We are quite capable of enjoying a sports bar, or a wine bar, or a cocktail bar, or The Albert or The Market depending on our mood and which one can be arsed to be open.

Not that it’s any of your business or that anyone cares but as a couple we spend well in excess of £500 a week averaged out over the year in bars, clubs and restaurants all over Britain.  Based on your snobby comment we won’t be spending any in this one or suggesting that our friends do.

To my untrained eye they should have sorted a few things out before opening rather than having you making excuses for them.

Cheers.

Exactly this. 
 

if they have employed Jack as spokesperson or a consultant, they maybe have the wrong person. 
 

maybe Amadeus would be better option as spokesperson as given fair review 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Manxman1234

[emesde]

28 minutes ago, Amadeus said:

They’re looking to get outside seating at the front which always helps to drive people in. Enjoyed trying their wares. Will certainly be back and I hardly ever go out anymore. 

What size are the measures here. If  28 measures per bottle at those prices it should buy a new fridge OK. And a bit of signage. 

[Mercenary]

40 minutes ago, CrazyDave said:

Not that it’s any of your business or that anyone cares but as a couple we spend well in excess of £500 a week averaged out over the year in bars, clubs and restaurants all over Britain.  

Go on then, I'll bite... How?!

[jackwhite]

13 minutes ago, CrazyDave said:

Yes I have applied for planning many times.  As far as I can see these haven’t for any signage yet.  Here is a hint.  It speeds it up if you apply for it before you need it.

As for the comment about us spending our money in the Front Porch instead.  Just wow.

We are quite capable of enjoying a sports bar, or a wine bar, or a cocktail bar, or The Albert or The Market depending on our mood and which one can be arsed to be open.

Not that it’s any of your business or that anyone cares but as a couple we spend well in excess of £500 a week averaged out over the year in bars, clubs and restaurants all over Britain.  Based on your snobby comment we won’t be spending any in this one or suggesting that our friends do.

To my untrained eye they should have sorted a few things out before opening rather than having you making excuses for them.

Cheers.

So you will recommend to your friends they don't go because you don't like someone pointing out on a forum people usually stick to a demographic? Makes you sound like the one we should be 'wow' ing. There's nothing 'snobby' about my comment, I'm simply pointing out that this what normally happens in hospitality. This based on years of research by people in the industry. I did say there are one or two 'floaters' as such. You may well fall into that category. I was simply pointing out it is a very different environment from the Front Porch. They probably couldn't be more different. Nothing 'snobby' about that. You simply misunderstood the comment.

It's not that they can't be 'arsed' opening. They literally were open for a full week and have only ever opened on a Monday once. Maybe if you'd been 'arsed' checking Google or social media, you'd have known that. I think they're entitled to a day off. It's not as if they said they'd be open. They never did. There was actually a family emergency and they had thought they might not be open the Sunday either but they couldn't get back in time. But yeah, you feel entitled all because you couldn't go when it suited you, despite them not actually supposed to be open any Monday and having only done it once during MGP.

You're offended mate because you don't like what you're being told. Now the fact you'll 'go tell my pals' seems childish.

21 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

It’s the cigar thing I don’t get.

Only a very small percentage of people in the UK  smoke cigars, much less at £20 a pop  I would imagine.

My experience over the years is that those pubs/ bars that have smoking facilities.  ( say as the Royal George in Ramsey did - undercover, seated and heated about as welcoming as you could get) you have seen them utilized less and less. 
And when you do it is cigarette smokers using them. I don’t recall seeing any cigar smokers using any such facilities.

But I assume the owners of HOPs, have done their research.

I am sure I am not the demographic they are aiming at but I see on their FB page some of the beers they are selling are £9 a pint . 

But I can get a pint of Timothy Taylor’s Landlord ale ( nectar, never tasted better) in the winner of the regional CAMRA pub of the year for less than £3

But I do wish the owners every success. We do need diversity in the hospitality market

 

I have explained this in the past I'm sure. 

For the sake of clarity, the cigars were circumstance.

They were a bit horrified when they saw the UK prices as the US ones are very cheap in comparison. So they decided to wholesale for themself. Buy some in at wholesale prices and sell to themselves at cost. However a lot of their friends then caught onto it and there was a demand.

I've seen cigar smoking groups in The Woodbourne, 1886, The Bridge and Mad Jacks. What do they have in common? All have reasonable smoking areas.

So they have provided the facility and people are using it. They had a group in smoking last night. Another the night before. 

They have also sold out 3 deliveries of cigars before they've even received them. People were coming into the bar and asking for them. So they started a waiting list and everything was sold to that list. This is despite not actively advertising they had any. They've just had to place another order.

Dependent on what statistics you look at, around 5% of the population are regular cigar smokers. That's not including those who either want to try it for the first time or smoke the very odd one. I personally don't smoke anything other than cigars. I will have one once a week or so. Some people however smoke as many as 3 a day. I wouldn't say that latter part is particularly common on the Isle of Man but I do know of a handful of people who smoke that many.

The £9 pint is a fruit sour beer (or was as I think it's finished). It's expensive to make, hence expensive to buy. You fit into a certain demographic by the sound of your post. You like TT and have a set price you like to pay for it. That's fine. Everyone has their own choice. However they've gone through more than a 50 pint keg of that stuff so it's popular. 

I personally don't drink cask so what CAMRA say doesn't hold any sway with me. I've run pubs and dealt with them before and I don't have much time for their judging criteria either. It's inconsistent, at best and varies wildly from area to area.

31 minutes ago, Manxman1234 said:

Exactly this. 
 

if they have employed Jack as spokesperson or a consultant, they maybe have the wrong person. 

I'm not a spokesperson. I'm someone who has invested some money in the business. Outside of that, they are friends of mine. So you really shouldn't be judging it off what I say. Lots of people will and others just won't try it because they don't like my persona on here. Or will drag it down etc. Try it for yourself. You might just like it.

Yes I'm bullish but I've been about a long time and honestly am jaded with people who are just negative. 

As has been said above, we need diversity in the hospitality scene here. They have certainly provided that. Most people who go and are into what they do love the place. They've had folk in from all continents who are also very keen.

Knowing their future plans, I think they'll do very well. But it should be understood they didn't have a fortune to throw at this project which the likes of Matchams and even H&G did, having money behind them. I admire them both greatly as, honestly, I wouldn't have the patience for the number of detractors on the Isle of Man, as I'm sure you can tell from my posts.

[jackwhite]

18 minutes ago, emesde said:

What size are the measures here. If  28 measures per bottle at those prices it should buy a new fridge OK. And a bit of signage. 

Any idea how much some of these bottles cost?

[emesde]

5 minutes ago, jackwhite said:

Any idea how much some of these bottles cost?

Yes...... But at those margins I expect somewhere offering a more pleasant environment with top quality glassware etc.   

A large humidor (possibly walk in) for the cigars. 

I've looked in through the window several times as its always been closed, to see what was happening and what I've seen doesn't inspire. 

But as you say diversity is a good thing and people can choose.