Katie Hopkins backlash..

[Harry Lamb]

7 minutes ago, P.K. said:

Nope.

The extension to Greater London was always in the plan, not something Khan added.

[P.K.]

2 minutes ago, Harry Lamb said:

The extension to Greater London was always in the plan, not something Khan added.

Thanks but don't spoil my amusing riposte...

[woolley]

2 hours ago, P.K. said:

Nope.

Wrong again!

Again? Don't recall ever being wrong before.

[kevster]

On 9/13/2023 at 3:36 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

Jim Davidson became famous in the mid 1970's when shows like 'Love thy Neighbour, 'Mind your language' and even 'The Black and White Minstral Show' were top TV shows.

Different world.

 

On 9/13/2023 at 3:51 PM, Declan said:

So did Lenny Henry. 

A relation of mine was involved in producing the stage version of the B&WMS and was also agent for Lenny Henry

[woolley]

2 hours ago, Harry Lamb said:

The extension to Greater London was always in the plan, not something Khan added.

 

2 hours ago, P.K. said:

Thanks but don't spoil my amusing riposte...

I'd be genuinely interested in seeing the evidence for this. I'll freely admit I was under the impression that the Johnson 2015 zone covered Inner London, expanding on Livingstone's original congestion charging zone:

https://www.london.gov.uk/press-releases/mayoral/ultra-low-emission-zone

It was extended by to the North and South Circular Roads by Khan's announcement in 2017:

https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2017/april/gla---mayor-plans-to-introduce-ulez-in-april-2019

Finally, to all of Greater London by Khan's announcement in Nov 2022:

https://www.london.gov.uk/ultra-low-emission-zone-will-be-expanded-london-wide

 

[John Wright]

3 hours ago, woolley said:

 

I'd be genuinely interested in seeing the evidence for this. I'll freely admit I was under the impression that the Johnson 2015 zone covered Inner London, expanding on Livingstone's original congestion charging zone:

https://www.london.gov.uk/press-releases/mayoral/ultra-low-emission-zone

It was extended by to the North and South Circular Roads by Khan's announcement in 2017:

https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2017/april/gla---mayor-plans-to-introduce-ulez-in-april-2019

Finally, to all of Greater London by Khan's announcement in Nov 2022:

https://www.london.gov.uk/ultra-low-emission-zone-will-be-expanded-london-wide

 

The initial introduction was jointly announced by Johnson and Cameron in 2015. The congestion charge and ULEZ were to coincide.

The big push to expand, first to the North & South Circular Road boundaries, then to cover Greater London, came from the (Tory) government in the negations to rescue and refund TfL during 2020 negotiations between the Mayor and central government. With Schapps pushing for the congestion charge to expand to N&S Circular Roads as well. The government opening ( and closing ) position was that TfL must widen the scope and levels of clean air charges.

Not only that, but ministers have openly discussed the need to replace Vehicle Excise Duty (VED) revenues as Brits move to electric vehicles (which don’t pay VED). There is, by the government’s own admission, a need for new forms of road user charging. 
 

Here is the relevant letter/position from Schapps at the DoT in May 2020. Go to para 12(h).

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/extraordinary-funding-and-financing-agreement-may-2020.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2ZSAqkvZRiAT2-7dVtTzhp0yiXAoZ9BNJ6uPdES9I1gkRbel9msYJye-o

[Kopek]

1 hour ago, kevster said:

 

A relation of mine was involved in producing the stage version of the B&WMS and was also agent for Lenny Henry

....and are you going to issue an apology for the behaviour of your ancestors??? Probably not. Shame on you!

[kevster]

18 minutes ago, Kopek said:

....and are you going to issue an apology for the behaviour of your ancestors??? Probably not. Shame on you!

Yes - I apologise for my relation inflicting Lenny Henry on the public

[Cambon]

2 hours ago, John Wright said:

Not only that, but ministers have openly discussed the need to replace Vehicle Excise Duty (VED) revenues as Brits move to electric vehicles (which don’t pay VED). There is, by the government’s own admission, a need for new forms of road user charging. 
 

This is correct. There is a great disparity. Not just EVs. EVs should pay road tax. There is no excuse not to. However, more recent (last 10-15 years or so) diesel cars also pay minimal tax. This is simply wrong, and they are now the choice for long distance commuters, and therefore are some of the most polluting cars in the country. 
The best way to tax pollution by vehicles is by taxing the fuel they use. Make it a flat rate road tax, and add 10P a litre to petrol and diesel. 

[John Wright]

12 minutes ago, Cambon said:

This is correct. There is a great disparity. Not just EVs. EVs should pay road tax. There is no excuse not to. However, more recent (last 10-15 years or so) diesel cars also pay minimal tax. This is simply wrong, and they are now the choice for long distance commuters, and therefore are some of the most polluting cars in the country. 
The best way to tax pollution by vehicles is by taxing the fuel they use. Make it a flat rate road tax, and add 10P a litre to petrol and diesel. 

Certainly tax the ICE fuel. Certainly charge per distance travelled and type of road. But also by weight of vehicle.

[Cambon]

19 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Certainly tax the ICE fuel. Certainly charge per distance travelled and type of road. But also by weight of vehicle.

Also by weight, including EVs. All cars road tax by weight. 
The other thing that annoys me is EVs getting cheaper electricity for charging, and low VAT! Ludicrous! 

[woolley]

6 hours ago, Harry Lamb said:

The extension to Greater London was always in the plan, not something Khan added.

The above is the assertion I am interested in substantiating.

2 hours ago, John Wright said:

The initial introduction was jointly announced by Johnson and Cameron in 2015. The congestion charge and ULEZ were to coincide.

The big push to expand, first to the North & Circular Road boundaries, then to cover Greater London came from the (Tory) government in the negations to rescue and refund TfL during 2020 negotiations between the Mayor and central government. With Schapps pushing for the congestion charge to expand to N&S Circular Roads as well. The government opening ( and closing ) position was that TfL must widen the scope and levels of clean air charges.

Not only that, but ministers have openly discussed the need to replace Vehicle Excise Duty (VED) revenues as Brits move to electric vehicles (which don’t pay VED). There is, by the government’s own admission, a need for new forms of road user charging. 
 

Here is the relevant letter/position from Schapps at the DoT in May 2020. Go to para 12(h).

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/extraordinary-funding-and-financing-agreement-may-2020.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2ZSAqkvZRiAT2-7dVtTzhp0yiXAoZ9BNJ6uPdES9I1gkRbel9msYJye-o

Thank you for linking this, although it doesn't help with substantiating the assertion.

The context of this letter is that the DoT is seeking to prod TfL into maximising its revenues across all of its operations, thereby weaning it off the financial support necessary during lockdown. It's an agreement doling out further Covid largesse to TfL in relation to the many "keeping the lights on" measures of the pandemic, rather than a new policy initiative from government. It's certainly a very thin offering of evidence in relation to government ownership of the principle of extending ULEZ to the whole of Greater London, particularly against the backdrop of Khan announcing two extensions to the zone, and his wearing of it almost as a badge of honour. I quote: "Sadiq Khan is proposing to expand this charge across Greater London........" The first of Khan's announcements in 2017 predates the DoT letter by more than 3 years, and your highlighted para 12h of the letter, whilst non-specific, relates to types and classes of vehicle rather than geographical reach.

I see nothing in the 2015 document I linked earlier that proposes subsequent enlargements of the zone, but I do see great fanfare in the 2017 and 2022 Khan announcements of "his" policy of enlargement.

As it goes, this is all academic to me, and the politicians are all as bad as each other. These things don't touch me because, very wisely, I live in the Isle of Man. If we travel to London it's usually by public transport because the roads are a nightmare, and even if we drove, all of our vehicles are compliant.

It remains an interesting debating point, but if we are to wrench the "credit" from Khan and give it to the Tories, there should surely be something in the records far more meaty and conclusive than this. After all, Harry Lamb is telling me "the extension to Greater London was always in the plan". I see no firm evidence of this whatsoever, but I remain open to enlightenment.

 

[John Wright]

18 minutes ago, woolley said:

The above is the assertion I am interested in substantiating.

Thank you for linking this, although it doesn't help with substantiating the assertion.

The context of this letter is that the DoT is seeking to prod TfL into maximising its revenues across all of its operations, thereby weaning it off the financial support necessary during lockdown. It's an agreement doling out further Covid largesse to TfL in relation to the many "keeping the lights on" measures of the pandemic, rather than a new policy initiative from government. It's certainly a very thin offering of evidence in relation to government ownership of the principle of extending ULEZ to the whole of Greater London, particularly against the backdrop of Khan announcing two extensions to the zone, and his wearing of it almost as a badge of honour. I quote: "Sadiq Khan is proposing to expand this charge across Greater London........" The first of Khan's announcements in 2017 predates the DoT letter by more than 3 years, and your highlighted para 12h of the letter, whilst non-specific, relates to types and classes of vehicle rather than geographical reach.

I see nothing in the 2015 document I linked earlier that proposes subsequent enlargements of the zone, but I do see great fanfare in the 2017 and 2022 Khan announcements of "his" policy of enlargement.

As it goes, this is all academic to me, and the politicians are all as bad as each other. These things don't touch me because, very wisely, I live in the Isle of Man. If we travel to London it's usually by public transport because the roads are a nightmare, and even if we drove, all of our vehicles are compliant.

It remains an interesting debating point, but if we are to wrench the "credit" from Khan and give it to the Tories, there should surely be something in the records far more meaty and conclusive than this. After all, Harry Lamb is telling me "the extension to Greater London was always in the plan". I see no firm evidence of this whatsoever, but I remain open to enlightenment.

 

I suppose it depends on how you interpret “scope” in 12h.

[Roger Mexico]

The expanded ULEZ area is simply the same as the existing LEZ area, which has been around since Johnson was Mayor.  So expansion was always going to happen.

[HiVibes]

49 minutes ago, Cambon said:

Also by weight, including EVs. All cars road tax by weight. 
The other thing that annoys me is EVs getting cheaper electricity for charging, and low VAT! Ludicrous! 

Charge by weight of the driver, and reduce if they have passeners. Ban all old poeople off the roads they are only prattling about and have zero purpose being there other than filling time in before death.