Allinson ~ assisted dying won't be the "cause of death" to get life insurance payouts

[HiVibes]

12 minutes ago, jackwhite said:

He wasn't half bleating some nonsense in his speech on it.

Apparently his campaign was vote for Cannan for love and compassion.

Assuming now he's just Dr Love and the passion is reserved for certain members of his cabinet!

Can you try and repost that without the bleating and nonsense?

[Albert Tatlock]

12 minutes ago, woolley said:

Unless they were elected saying one thing and then voting for the opposite.

https://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/politics/outrage-at-mhks-u-turn-on-assisted-dying-551357

Story of most MHKs under comin.

Manifestos turn to shoite.

Been that way for 30 yrs.

Robots that get unelected after one or maybe two terms.

We get what we vote for.

[english zloty]

10 hours ago, McCallig said:

Second reading means a great deal. They have accepted the principle. Welcome to the 21st century.

Nearly all Bills get through second reading unless the mover doesn’t want it to. Second reading is only there to provide a mood in the room for the mover

[Holte End]

10 hours ago, Stu Peters said:

Excellent and genuine speech, I thought.

Really then you thought wrong, but not for the first time. She must resign from health, she can't accuse people in palliative care of killing patients. I think you should listen again to what she said. Why bother with assisted dying, if they are already medicating to quicken death claim , which was implied.  

[Omobono]

the clauses stage will sort the men from  the boys  when all the amendments  to the bill start being moved ,  an interesting question would be  , if the bill is successful and eventually makes its way through the legislative council ,how certain are they that the UK will accept  it for royal assent ,if this does not happen then the whole exercise has been a complete waste of parliamentary  time and expense ,

[Moghrey Mie]

12 hours ago, genericUserName said:

I am surprised that Cannan is against it. He has gone down in my estimation. The others do not surprise me.

Politicians always seem to 'get religion' as there are votes in it.

[Roger Mexico]

2 minutes ago, Omobono said:

[..] if the bill is successful and eventually makes its way through the legislative council ,how certain are they that the UK will accept  it for royal assent ,if this does not happen then the whole exercise has been a complete waste of parliamentary  time and expense ,

That's not true even if they know that the Royal Assent will be withheld.  In that case it would still make clear what the will of the Manx parliament was and put pressure on the UK to justify itself.  Given that similar proposals have the same level of popular support in the UK itself, it would also cause political problems there.  And of course the law would still be there and could be implemented whenever the UK relented. The time and though spent on it wouldn't wasted.

But the truth is that we don't really know how the UK will react.  They've approved things that they were opposing in the UK in the past (extending civil partnerships for example) and there will be a tendency to avoid controversy if they can. 

[Two-lane]

Is there a possibility that IoM politicians and Civil Servants have had unofficial discussions with their counterparts in the UK about this subject?

[Jarndyce]

30 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

the truth is that we don't really know how the UK will react.  They've approved things that they were opposing in the UK in the past (extending civil partnerships for example) and there will be a tendency to avoid controversy if they can

Interesting - is it more controversial (from UK Gov point of view) to withhold assent; or to approve a relatively controversial bill which they wouldn’t pass themselves (currently at least)?

[Ringy Rose]

11 hours ago, Gladys said:

Personally, I am for a properly safeguarded legal means to allow everyone to have the choice when faced with the prospect of a terminal illness, with an undignified and painful life leading to an inevitable and equally undignified and painful death.  Those safeguards are vital to get right and if that cannot be assured, that alone would be the only reason I would want the bill to fail.

My reservations also relate to safeguarding. I think there are enough people who would persuade granny that she’s a burden and would be better off taking the exit route, all so they can get the inheritance without it being eaten up in care fees. It really needs to be something that people consent to and that this consent is bulletproof.

I think the benefits outweigh the dangers- most people won’t talk granny into killings themselves- but I respect others who believe the opposite. The only ones I don’t respect are the Bible-bashers who say that I shouldn’t be allowed to do something because their Sky Fairy says so.

I’m a little surprised Claire Christian voted against, given her general position on most things, and I’d be interested as to why. The rest I’m not surprised about at all, especially not Alf Cannan.

[wrighty]

If it gets this far I suspect the UK will allow it - use us as a 'testing ground'

[HiVibes]

20 minutes ago, wrighty said:

If it gets this far I suspect the UK will allow it - use us as a 'testing ground'

Suppose there would be a clause in the bill to stop UK residents moving to the Isle of Man soley to get this service, otherwise we will have a lot of people with a terminal diagnosis albeit outside the 6 month to death prognosis moving here to ensure they can pull the trigger when the time comes and it is hard to imagine how the health and social care service could cope with that extra load. 

[Gladys]

42 minutes ago, Ringy Rose said:

My reservations also relate to safeguarding. I think there are enough people who would persuade granny that she’s a burden and would be better off taking the exit route, all so they can get the inheritance without it being eaten up in care fees. It really needs to be something that people consent to and that this consent is bulletproof.

I think the benefits outweigh the dangers- most people won’t talk granny into killings themselves- but I respect others who believe the opposite. The only ones I don’t respect are the Bible-bashers who say that I shouldn’t be allowed to do something because their Sky Fairy says so.

I’m a little surprised Claire Christian voted against, given her general position on most things, and I’d be interested as to why. The rest I’m not surprised about at all, especially not Alf Cannan.

Yes, CC's vote surprised me too. 

[Gladys]

16 minutes ago, HiVibes said:

Suppose there would be a clause in the bill to stop UK residents moving to the Isle of Man soley to get this service, otherwise we will have a lot of people with a terminal diagnosis albeit outside the 6 month to death prognosis moving here to ensure they can pull the trigger when the time comes and it is hard to imagine how the health and social care service could cope with that extra load. 

There is a residency provision, not sure what it is. 

[Moghrey Mie]

9 minutes ago, Gladys said:

There is a residency provision, not sure what it is. 

One year but you don't have to register to say you are living here. So I don't know how that would work.

https://www.tynwald.org.im/spfile?file=/business/bills/Bills/Assisted-Dying-Bill-2023.pdf

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Moghrey Mie