EV Island Issues

[mad_manx]

Why don't the anti EV folk have issues with hybrids..They also have a battery pack and an electric motor in addition to an ICE engine with flammable liquid .

 

The Norwegian ferry company that's been in the headlines due to the EV ban also banned hybrids as well 

That's conveniently ignored by most people who are afraid of EV fires 🙂

When I checked the data last time around a 3rd of new cars sold in Europe were hybrids.. So I suppose they don't want to talk about it..

Edited October 25, 2023 by mad_manx

[joebean]

10 minutes ago, mad_manx said:

Why don't the anti EV folk have issues with hybrids..They also have a battery pack and an electric motor in addition to an ICE engine with flammable liquid .

 

The Norwegian ferry company that's been in the headlines due to the EV ban also banned hybrids as well 

That's conveniently ignored by most people who are afraid of EV fires 🙂

When I checked the data last time around a 3rd of new cars sold in Europe were hybrids.. So I suppose they don't want to talk about it..

Yes, same issue exists. The first ferry that goes down or has to evacuate will inform a wider policy, no doubt. Before that, it will be ok until it’s not ok. 

[Max Power]

30 minutes ago, mad_manx said:

Why don't the anti EV folk have issues with hybrids..They also have a battery pack and an electric motor in addition to an ICE engine with flammable liquid .

 

The Norwegian ferry company that's been in the headlines due to the EV ban also banned hybrids as well 

That's conveniently ignored by most people who are afraid of EV fires 🙂

When I checked the data last time around a 3rd of new cars sold in Europe were hybrids.. So I suppose they don't want to talk about it..

Hybrid technology has been around for a long time and Toyota have had the Prius in production for nearly thirty years. The batteries tend to be smaller and don't form a stressed member quite so much as EVs. The majority of them just provide a boost on acceleration and allow the car to be parked up without the engine running. I imagine that plug in hybrids are more close to the way EVs operate. 

In short, I don't believe that these part hybrids are such a danger as EVs and plug ins?

[John Wright]

46 minutes ago, mad_manx said:

The Norwegian ferry company that's been in the headlines due to the EV ban also banned hybrids as well 

Let’s not forget, it’s not a standard ferry operation like the Steam Packet. It doesn’t just go from A to B and back. It goes from A to B to C…..to M and back over 11 days. It’s really a fjord cruise now, tourists. They don’t really want to have to manoeuvre cars on and off, and around the car deck at points along the route. And you’ve got to remember that  90% of all cars sold in Norway are EV/hybrid this year, and it’s been over 80% for 5 years. Very different business pattern and risk.

Simple truth, they don’t want to have to carry cars. Change in business model.

They've one competitor on the route, they still carry cars, EV, hybrid, ICE. Only sufficient vehicle traffic to support one service provider.

33 minutes ago, joebean said:

The first ferry that goes down or has to evacuate will inform a wider policy, no doubt

I’m sure that was what was said about ICE on the Steam Packet. You had to arrive at Liverpool running on air up until the mid 60’s, maybe later for motorbikes. Your tank got dipped and and excess got siphoned and lost. That’s why Tiger Tim’s did so well in Bath Place.

The IMO are preparing  an opinion and recommendations to amend SOLAS to cover EV carriage.

[mad_manx]

1 hour ago, Max Power said:

Hybrid technology has been around for a long time and Toyota have had the Prius in production for nearly thirty years. The batteries tend to be smaller and don't form a stressed member quite so much as EVs. The majority of them just provide a boost on acceleration and allow the car to be parked up without the engine running. I imagine that plug in hybrids are more close to the way EVs operate. 

In short, I don't believe that these part hybrids are such a danger as EVs and plug ins?

I've driven many 'self charging' hybrids and many of  them can travel for a fairly good distance on the electric motor alone ..Several miles for some of them if you are on a flat road 

The  ICE engine only kicks in when you are going up a hill or if the battery is depleted or if you accelerate suddenly..

Edited October 25, 2023 by mad_manx

[Max Power]

20 minutes ago, mad_manx said:

I've driven many 'self charging' hybrids and many of  them can travel for a fairly good distance on the electric motor alone ..Several miles for some of them if you are on a flat road 

The  ICE engine only kicks in when you are going up a hill or if the battery is depleted or if you accelerate suddenly..

Yes, depends on the model, the Prius only had a range of 0.9 of a mile on the battery at one time. 

[emesde]

5 hours ago, joebean said:

There is a very reasonable case, on safety grounds for not allowing EVs on ferries at all. I note the recent assurance given to one of Moorhouse’s recent questions but I would like to know what the prospect of actually extinguishing an EV fire is on our ferries. It’s likely that an EV fire on a packed ferry would create a situation where, as on car transportation ships, the fire would spread and likely have to burn out. The result of that would be the evacuation of the ferry and loss of the vessel. Not something that sits easy with me on my frequent trips away. 

Back in May the Minister gave a catagoric answer that it wasn't a problem "

The Treasury Minister has assured MHKs that the Steam Packet could contain an electric vehicle fire if one were to break out.

He was asked by Middle MHK Stu Peters how confident he is that an EV fire aboard a ferry can be safely contained

Alex Allinson responded in the House of Keys, saying that all Steam Packet ships comply with legislation. 
He added that they are all ‘surveyed, tested and certified. "

So no problem then🙄

[quilp]

29 minutes ago, mad_manx said:

I've driven many 'self charging' hybrids and many of  them can travel for a fairly good distance on the electric motor alone ..Several miles for some of them if you are on a flat road 

The  ICE engine only kicks in when you are going up a hill or if the battery is depleted or if you accelerate suddenly..

I have one. There is definitely a technique, nay, an art to getting the best out of it but I reckon most drivers would catch on. For instance, top of the Creg and it's all the way to Ramsey at 50mph on electric, then the regen braking on the way down into Ramsey helps charge the batteries. Never experienced a problem with it in 5 years. 

[WTF]

1 hour ago, emesde said:

 

Alex Allinson responded in the House of Keys, saying that all Steam Packet ships comply with legislation. 
He added that they are all ‘surveyed, tested and certified. "

So no problem then🙄

i bet the titanic was certified too................................  useless curly haired wanker

[Major Rushen]

Non EV risk of file is electrical damage or fuel leaking onto a hot exhaust. For an EV the is a greater risk of battery overheat when charging. So no sneaky charging on the boat please.

[Jarndyce]

3 hours ago, quilp said:

I have one.

Which make/model, if you don’t mind me asking?

[Blade Runner]

A ICE engine fire with either petrol or diesel CAN BE PUT OUT WITH SIMPLE existing fire suppressing technology

An EV fire cannot. 

IOM Fire service have dealt with 2 EV fires as far as I know on the roads on the island and both were just left to burn themselves out. - (In the last  year)

Some training that is for the boat crews...........

[quilp]

34 minutes ago, Jarndyce said:

Which make/model, if you don’t mind me asking?

Not at all. 2017 Kia Niro.

[The Bastard]

22 minutes ago, Blade Runner said:

A ICE engine fire with either petrol or diesel CAN BE PUT OUT WITH SIMPLE existing fire suppressing technology

An EV fire cannot. 

IOM Fire service have dealt with 2 EV fires as far as I know on the roads on the island and both were just left to burn themselves out. - (In the last  year)

Some training that is for the boat crews...........

That's a blanket statement that doesn't align with the facts.

I already posted a link to a professional firefighter's assessment of EV fires on ferries, the nature of the fires, the development in technology and the means of extinguishing them. Just to prevent us going back to square one and going through the same perceptions over and over, have a read of it. 

https://cfpa-e.eu/new-knowledge-about-battery-fires-in-electric-cars-on-ferries/

[quilp]

17 minutes ago, The Bastard said:

That's a blanket statement that doesn't align with the facts.

I already posted a link to a professional firefighter's assessment of EV fires on ferries, the nature of the fires, the development in technology and the means of extinguishing them. Just to prevent us going back to square one and going through the same perceptions over and over, have a read of it. 

https://cfpa-e.eu/new-knowledge-about-battery-fires-in-electric-cars-on-ferries/

Good link. Didn’t read it detail when posted previously. The 2-minute contagion experiment coukd be very problematic and it was stressed that no two fires are the same. After the good doctor's reassurance, we can take for granted then that the fire-fighting and containment techniques employed by those experienced, professional fire-fighters are being passed-on to the boat's inexperienced, non-professional fire-fighters, with suitable training provided. Toxic fumes released by EV fires especially will require suitable PPE; fire-helmets/respirators, etc., in an enclosed car-deck. Do car-decks have sprinkler and smoke extraction systems as standard?