A fool and his money..... Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 1 hour ago, mad_manx said: I'm not sure if there is any other IOM specific limitation. Really? What if I give you a clue? Crip_plin_ de_t . Any ideas? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A fool and his money..... Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 1 minute ago, Happier diner said: Well you might think you can change the laws of physics, but you can't. You are saying I have a lack of fundamental knowledge? Bloody hell man. Go back to school. I'm not the one trying to explain the rate of charge of a battery using Ohms law! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 6 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said: I'm not the one trying to explain the rate of charge of a battery using Ohms law! Neither am I. And neither am I a person that thinks a charger can increase power. The charger can only deliver the power that is available to it. If the cables to your house is limited, how can a charger magnify that power. The only way to charge faster at a house would be to upgrade the cable infrastructure to it. That would have to be all the way back to the substation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ingham Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Happier diner said: Neither am I. And neither am I a person that thinks a charger can increase power. The charger can only deliver the power that is available to it. If the cables to your house is limited, how can a charger magnify that power. The only way to charge faster at a house would be to upgrade the cable infrastructure to it. That would have to be all the way back to the substation. You don’t think if I had a charger fitted five years ago, I couldn’t replace it now for one that would charge my car more quickly? What about someone who has an iPhone charger and an iPad charger? Plugging the iPad charger into the same socket as the older iPhone charger won’t charge the device more quickly? Edited May 16 by Anthony Ingham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 12 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said: I'm not the one trying to explain the rate of charge of a battery using Ohms law! And why do you think ohms law is not relevant. It's fundamentally relevant surely. The cable to your house has a fixed resistance. Therefore if the voltage goes up the current goes down. That makes the KW static. If I am wrong then please explain how and why and I will learn anew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 2 minutes ago, Anthony Ingham said: You don’t think if I had a charger fitted five years ago, I could replace it now for what that would charge my car more quickly? What about someone who has an iPhone charger and an iPad charger? Plugging the iPad charger into the same socket as the older iPhone charger won’t charge the device more quickly? I don't think the rate that you charge an iPad is limited by the capacity of the cable that feeds your house. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ingham Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 4 minutes ago, Happier diner said: I don't think the rate that you charge an iPad is limited by the capacity of the cable that feeds your house. Why are you talking about houses again, when the thread is about public chargers supplied by MUA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 Just now, Anthony Ingham said: Why are you talking about houses again, when the thread is about public chargers supplied by MUA? But my post was in response to VOR saying that house chargers would get faster. Perhaps we are at crossed purposes here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad_manx Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Anthony Ingham said: You don’t think if I had a charger fitted five years ago, I couldn’t replace it now for one that would charge my car more quickly? What about someone who has an iPhone charger and an iPad charger? Plugging the iPad charger into the same socket as the older iPhone charger won’t charge the device more quickly? Home charging points ( most people assume that the podpoint etc used in home charging and most of the commerical charging points on the island is a charger .. it's only a supply for AC current .. The actual charger is inside the car!). The fast chargers on the other hand charge the battery directly with DC current. Home charging / most of the charging points on the island are limited to around a 7kW due to supply constraints.. I know that you can get 22kW if you have 3 phase power but I don't know if any homes have that.. Commercial premises can do this..I think Jacksons / Motormall have some 22kW ones Edited May 16 by mad_manx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ingham Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 8 minutes ago, Happier diner said: But my post was in response to VOR saying that house chargers would get faster. Perhaps we are at crossed purposes here. Who hadn’t posted on this thread for the 10 hours I just scrolled back, and you quoted my post? Its hard to keep track of what you are on about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A fool and his money..... Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 28 minutes ago, Happier diner said: And why do you think ohms law is not relevant. It's fundamentally relevant surely. The cable to your house has a fixed resistance. Therefore if the voltage goes up the current goes down. That makes the KW static. If I am wrong then please explain how and why and I will learn anew. Firstly the voltage to your house is fixed by the supplier, in theory at least, it doesn't go up or down. Secondly, the resistance of the cable to your house will be fairly fixed, that is correct ( but irrelevant), the impedance of the load in your home will vary, in impedance but also in nature, it may be mainly inductive, it may be more capacitive. In the first case the voltage will lead the current, in the latter in the current will lead the voltage. The power used by your home is anything but static, sometimes it will be high (think Christmas day) sometimes it will be low (think four o'clock on a Tuesday morning in summer). Lastly, none of this has the slightest relevance to what we are discussing, ie public charging points becoming obsolete in fairly short order. Battery charging is a lot more complicated than most people (including yourself) think. You can't just quote Ohms law and be done with it. To put it very basically, your charger really needs to be designed for the type of battery you are using, for maximum power transfer to the battery, IE maximum charge. The two technologies must advance simultaneously, which is why a five year old battery charger may not be the best option to charge a new battery. Battery (and therefore charger) technology is a huge area of research at the moment for obvious reasons, as with many other types of technology the pace of change is fairly quick. You're right in your basic understanding that you cannot change the laws of physics, ofcourse not. You can however develop technology that better uses the laws of chemistry to produce more efficient means of storing electric charge. As I have said before, the best predictor of the future is the past. Go and fit an EV charger from 2010 to your house and see what it does to your "static KW's" and how long it takes to charge your car? Tell me why your laws of physics let that happen? There's more to technology than a couple of GCSE physics lessons. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 (edited) 7 hours ago, A fool and his money..... said: Firstly the voltage to your house is fixed by the supplier, in theory at least, it doesn't go up or down. Secondly, the resistance of the cable to your house will be fairly fixed, that is correct ( but irrelevant), the impedance of the load in your home will vary, in impedance but also in nature, it may be mainly inductive, it may be more capacitive. In the first case the voltage will lead the current, in the latter in the current will lead the voltage. The power used by your home is anything but static, sometimes it will be high (think Christmas day) sometimes it will be low (think four o'clock on a Tuesday morning in summer). Lastly, none of this has the slightest relevance to what we are discussing, ie public charging points becoming obsolete in fairly short order. Battery charging is a lot more complicated than most people (including yourself) think. You can't just quote Ohms law and be done with it. To put it very basically, your charger really needs to be designed for the type of battery you are using, for maximum power transfer to the battery, IE maximum charge. The two technologies must advance simultaneously, which is why a five year old battery charger may not be the best option to charge a new battery. Battery (and therefore charger) technology is a huge area of research at the moment for obvious reasons, as with many other types of technology the pace of change is fairly quick. You're right in your basic understanding that you cannot change the laws of physics, ofcourse not. You can however develop technology that better uses the laws of chemistry to produce more efficient means of storing electric charge. As I have said before, the best predictor of the future is the past. Go and fit an EV charger from 2010 to your house and see what it does to your "static KW's" and how long it takes to charge your car? Tell me why your laws of physics let that happen? There's more to technology than a couple of GCSE physics lessons. Like I said a few posts back, I was referring to home chargers. The discussion had temporarily moved to home tariffs and home charging. I apologise if that is not made clear. Hopefully it is now. I still maintain though, and am correct in saying, that tje charging rate is limited to the amount of power available more so than the technology. Edited May 17 by Happier diner 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 the most limiting factor is the max CURRENT that the feed to the house consumer unit is rated for , usually a 60 amp fuse but can have a 100 amp fuse fitted if necessary, we have all three phases with 100 amp fuses on each , my leccy bill is rather expensive. the 240 volt supply is usually around 230 volt , you may have noticed most appliances state 220 -240 v on the side. if you actually had the full 240 volts with a 100 amp fuse that gives a max possible draw of 24kwh , how that capacity is distributed around your house is sort of up to you but an EV charge point is never going to be capable of giving that amount on its own as it will be limited so that there is some electrical capacity left on your supply to actually power the house 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A fool and his money..... Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 8 hours ago, Happier diner said: Like I said a few posts back, I was referring to home chargers. The discussion had temporarily moved to home tariffs and home charging. I apologise if that is not made clear. Hopefully it is now. I still maintain though, and am correct in saying, that tje charging rate is limited to the amount of power available more so than the technology. It really doesn't matter what kind of chargers you are talking about, it really isn't as simple as that. The amount of power available is only one factor of many, technology being a major one. You can't just connect up your EV to the output of a power station and expect it to charge in seconds because of the amount of power available. It's not that simple. Charging batteries has always been more complicated than most people think. Take lead acid batteries for example, they've been around for many decades and most of us rely on them daily. Yet if you lined up 100 people and gave them a multimeter and a lead acid battery 99 of them (even a good many mechanics) would be unable to tell you it's state of charge unless it was completely flat or completely full. What chance do you have with the newer more advanced technology of EV's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 31 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said: What chance do you have with the newer more advanced technology of EV's? The old 12v lead acid battery is a bit of a relic by modern standards. Newer battery technology comes with charge and lifetime management, often built into the unit itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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