A fool and his money..... Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 38 minutes ago, loaf said: The old 12v lead acid battery is a bit of a relic by modern standards. Newer battery technology comes with charge and lifetime management, often built into the unit itself. That's exactly my point. Many haven't mastered the relic yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 1 hour ago, loaf said: The old 12v lead acid battery is a bit of a relic by modern standards. Newer battery technology comes with charge and lifetime management, often built into the unit itself. its supposed to , but how many fires have we read about where a chung wang scooter has been plugged in to charge and a house fire has ensued? , the use of larger lithium type batteries requires a lot more diligence than your old tech lead acid. it would be interesting to know what kwh per kilo and/or volume you can get from lead acid compared to lithium batteries, it may well be that on this island the same volume or weight of lead acid batteries found in the average EV compared to lithium would be sufficient for a comfortable useable daily driver , ( not the old G-Wiz ) we don't need commuting vehicles with a range of 150 miles. 60 miles should be enough for most people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad_manx Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 7 minutes ago, WTF said: its supposed to , but how many fires have we read about where a chung wang scooter has been plugged in to charge and a house fire has ensued? , the use of larger lithium type batteries requires a lot more diligence than your old tech lead acid. it would be interesting to know what kwh per kilo and/or volume you can get from lead acid compared to lithium batteries, it may well be that on this island the same volume or weight of lead acid batteries found in the average EV compared to lithium would be sufficient for a comfortable useable daily driver , ( not the old G-Wiz ) we don't need commuting vehicles with a range of 150 miles. 60 miles should be enough for most people. I think lead acid batteries are much more heavier than lithium ones ..That's a major issue.. Also think that they have a shorter lifespan than the lithium ones.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 1 hour ago, WTF said: its supposed to , but how many fires have we read about where a chung wang scooter has been plugged in to charge and a house fire has ensued? Petrol/Diesel driven vehicles going up in flames do not make the headlines any more, but it happens often enough. And you only have to read this thread to spot the vested interests falsely claiming any vehicle fire that does hit the papers is an EV. 1 hour ago, WTF said: the use of larger lithium type batteries requires a lot more diligence than your old tech lead acid. True, but thankfully technology has evolved to manage the complexity. For example, the lithium iron phosphate leisure battery I have has bluetooth and all sorts of telemetry that protects it from being under and over good operating limits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-lane Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 On 5/16/2024 at 12:21 PM, Cambon said: If there were no government charging points, If you are local and own an EV, you need to make provisions for it. If you are a tourist, you need to educate yourself, and not bring an EV, or stay in a hotel that provides charging points. Who uses the EV charging points? A resident with a driveway will have no need - the island is too small for that to be a factor. So, either a visitor or a local who has no home charging facility. Most likely a local. If the island becomes totally EV, an awful lot of EV charging points will need to be installed. Rather more than there are petrol stations. There will be quite some cost involved with that - and the maintenance, as noted above. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 5 hours ago, A fool and his money..... said: It really doesn't matter what kind of chargers you are talking about, it really isn't as simple as that. The amount of power available is only one factor of many, technology being a major one. You can't just connect up your EV to the output of a power station and expect it to charge in seconds because of the amount of power available. It's not that simple. Charging batteries has always been more complicated than most people think. Take lead acid batteries for example, they've been around for many decades and most of us rely on them daily. Yet if you lined up 100 people and gave them a multimeter and a lead acid battery 99 of them (even a good many mechanics) would be unable to tell you it's state of charge unless it was completely flat or completely full. What chance do you have with the newer more advanced technology of EV's? The amount of power available is the most important factor by a country mile. Chargers can't make power. If there ain't enough power the technology is useless. The only way around would be to have B2B charging as a way of storing power which could then be used for super fast charging at home. Again though, that's not new technology. It's well established. It's just very expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 1 hour ago, Two-lane said: Who uses the EV charging points? A resident with a driveway will have no need - the island is too small for that to be a factor. So, either a visitor or a local who has no home charging facility. Most likely a local. If the island becomes totally EV, an awful lot of EV charging points will need to be installed. Rather more than there are petrol stations. There will be quite some cost involved with that - and the maintenance, as noted above. The charging points seem to be reasonably well used to me. We don't have a driveway though and I wouldn't want to have to rely on public charging points. So I will not be considering a full electric car. There are some cracking hybrids around though ( proper hybrids and not the silly mild hybrids). They seem to be almost the same price as normal ICE cars (.which are getting harder to find). Renault especially has made a big leap into this market whereas VW seems to be persevering with full ICE as their mainstream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Buggane Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 I just have an old piece of cable with a plug on which I trail from the boot of my ICE car and plug it in when I need a park in town. Which seems to be the norm with electric cars as you tend to see the same vehicle monopolising certain charging point's day after day. Would it work out cheaper to keep your vehicle in a charging bay than actual cost of parking. We are not including the civil service or deranged MHK's in this as the cost of parking for them still is Nil Pois or no pounds and no doubt MHK's can claim a travel expense so as to park at subsidised charging rate. Most likely non of this is true, But when have I ever let the truth get in the way of a good story. Then again when has the CS MHK's ever let the truth out to the electorate . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 5 hours ago, Dirty Buggane said: I just have an old piece of cable with a plug on which I trail from the boot of my ICE car and plug it in when I need a park in town. Which seems to be the norm with electric cars as you tend to see the same vehicle monopolising certain charging point's day after day. Would it work out cheaper to keep your vehicle in a charging bay than actual cost of parking. We are not including the civil service or deranged MHK's in this as the cost of parking for them still is Nil Pois or no pounds and no doubt MHK's can claim a travel expense so as to park at subsidised charging rate. Most likely non of this is true, But when have I ever let the truth get in the way of a good story. Then again when has the CS MHK's ever let the truth out to the electorate . You are lying. It's an old and tired joke. The EV can only stay the same time as any disc parking. You are talking nob rot. You even admit it yourself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham_N_Eggs Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 1 hour ago, Happier diner said: You are lying. It's an old and tired joke. The EV can only stay the same time as any disc parking. You are talking nob rot. You even admit it yourself. I wander past the back of Government Offices on a daily basis and almost without fail one of the cars charging has a parking ticket. It seems some are paying more than most for a charge! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-lane Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1900555/eu-news-china-electric-cars-antwerp-zeebrugge Cheap cars... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 13 hours ago, Two-lane said: Who uses the EV charging points? A resident with a driveway will have no need - the island is too small for that to be a factor. So, either a visitor or a local who has no home charging facility. Most likely a local. If the island becomes totally EV, an awful lot of EV charging points will need to be installed. Rather more than there are petrol stations. There will be quite some cost involved with that - and the maintenance, as noted above. The island will never be totally ev. It is not the government or tax payers responsibility to provide charging points, just as it is not their responsibility to provide petrol stations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-lane Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 1 minute ago, Cambon said: It is not the government or tax payers responsibility to provide charging points, just as it is not their responsibility to provide petrol stations. It may not be the gov.'s responsibility, but someone has paid for the installations. Was it the local authorities or was it the gov.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 12 hours ago, Happier diner said: The charging points seem to be reasonably well used to me. We don't have a driveway though and I wouldn't want to have to rely on public charging points. So I will not be considering a full electric car. There are some cracking hybrids around though ( proper hybrids and not the silly mild hybrids). They seem to be almost the same price as normal ICE cars (.which are getting harder to find). Renault especially has made a big leap into this market whereas VW seems to be persevering with full ICE as their mainstream. EVs have peaked. Volkswagen have stopped expanding the EV division because they see this. EVs have only ever been a niche market. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 1 hour ago, Two-lane said: https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1900555/eu-news-china-electric-cars-antwerp-zeebrugge Cheap cars... It's the daily Express. Pictures of teslas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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