Anthony Ingham Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 So let’s turn this on the head. With your knowledge and understanding of chargers and electric vehicles twenty years ago, would you have ever thought it possible that people could buy a car in 2024 that would outperform the super cars of the time, do hundreds of miles on a charge and be plugged in and charged at their home or place of work? The laws of physics haven’t changed in that time. Surely you can see that a charger from ten years ago in the home of someone who has had a new EV every three years for the last decade is useless to them despite the fact that it still technically works? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A fool and his money..... Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 1 hour ago, WTF said: you need to differentiate between amperage and wattage to get your head round it. , consider an EV charger to be an incandescent bulb of yesteryear, if you had a 60 watt bulb and decided you needed more light you replaced the 60 watt bulb with a 100 watt bulb , the actual fuse on your lighting circuit would be 5 amp , 6 amp with modern MCB / RCBO type breakers. it didn't matter whether it was a 60 watt or 100 watt bulb being powered because neither of them exceeded the 5 amp capacity of the fuse. a 5 amp fuse at 240 volts can support a 1200 watt load , so you could get more light without increasing the available amperage to the circuit. the EV charger situation will be similar , at the outset the power supply to them will have been rated for more amps and therefore more wattage than the actual load the initially installed chargers could draw leaving extra capacity on the supply, more than the actual charger was able to utilise . now the charger has been replaced with a more powerful one in terms of watts but it still does not exceed the available amperage from the supply . as batteries in vehicles have their capacity increased more powerful chargers will be required to provide X % of charge in a given time frame. That's exactly what I've been saying, it's happy diner who doesn't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 43 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said: That's exactly what I've been saying, it's happy diner who doesn't get it. Ha Ha. Other way round matey boy. WTF does get it. You dont. Even your terminology isnt right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 1 hour ago, Anthony Ingham said: So let’s turn this on the head. With your knowledge and understanding of chargers and electric vehicles twenty years ago, would you have ever thought it possible that people could buy a car in 2024 that would outperform the super cars of the time, do hundreds of miles on a charge and be plugged in and charged at their home or place of work? The laws of physics haven’t changed in that time. Surely you can see that a charger from ten years ago in the home of someone who has had a new EV every three years for the last decade is useless to them despite the fact that it still technically works? I know what you re saying but not 100% with you. I think it's the battery technology that has improved more so than the chargers. The charger just applies an electrical current. Sure its tuned to the battery and there is some decent technology there. But batteries. Wow. They have changed immeasurably. I mean you can start a car with a battery the size of a phone. Its charges from 5v USB socket. You can get them for £20 off Ebay. Now that's technology and technology that does not rewrite the laws of physics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ingham Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 2 minutes ago, Happier diner said: I know what you re saying but not 100% with you. I think it's the battery technology that has improved more so than the chargers. The charger just applies an electrical current. Sure its tuned to the battery and there is some decent technology there. But batteries. Wow. They have changed immeasurably. I mean you can start a car with a battery the size of a phone. Its charges from 5v USB socket. You can get them for £20 off Ebay. Now that's technology and technology that does not rewrite the laws of physics. But your whole point has been that the chargers and battery tech can’t advance much more without us hitting bottlenecks in distribution, yet you accept it’s changed beyond all recognition in recent years without any major infrastructure investment. You’ve lost me I am afraid. If battery tech continues to improve, then the issues you are talking about disappear but the chargers people use will have to keep being resolved to keep up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 4 minutes ago, Happier diner said: I know what you re saying but not 100% with you. I think it's the battery technology that has improved more so than the chargers. The charger just applies an electrical current. Sure its tuned to the battery and there is some decent technology there. But batteries. Wow. They have changed immeasurably. I mean you can start a car with a battery the size of a phone. Its charges from 5v USB socket. You can get them for £20 off Ebay. Now that's technology and technology that does not rewrite the laws of physics. Much more to it than that. Lithium chargers are much more complex than nicad style ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 8 minutes ago, Cambon said: Much more to it than that. Lithium chargers are much more complex than nicad style ones. I didnt say they weren't. Lithium charging is well established though isnt it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 12 minutes ago, Happier diner said: I know what you re saying but not 100% with you. I think it's the battery technology that has improved more so than the chargers. The charger just applies an electrical current. Sure its tuned to the battery and there is some decent technology there. But batteries. Wow. They have changed immeasurably. I mean you can start a car with a battery the size of a phone. Its charges from 5v USB socket. You can get them for £20 off Ebay. Now that's technology and technology that does not rewrite the laws of physics. the battery technology has nothing to do with amps and watts from a charging a point of view , it is just the size of the storage capacity of KWH and how fast it can release the stored energy , the energy has to be moved into the battery from the available charging infrastructure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 9 minutes ago, Anthony Ingham said: But your whole point has been that the chargers and battery tech can’t advance much more without us hitting bottlenecks in distribution, yet you accept it’s changed beyond all recognition in recent years without any major infrastructure investment. You’ve lost me I am afraid. If battery tech continues to improve, then the issues you are talking about disappear but the chargers people use will have to keep being resolved to keep up. All I have ever said is the chargers cannot make power that isnt there. Its will always be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 Just now, WTF said: the battery technology has nothing to do with amps and watts from a charging a point of view , it is just the size of the storage capacity of KWH and how fast it can release the stored energy , the energy has to be moved into the battery from the available charging infrastructure. I absolutely agree and understand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A fool and his money..... Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 34 minutes ago, Happier diner said: Ha Ha. Other way round matey boy. WTF does get it. You dont. Even your terminology isnt right. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you, your posts are there for anyone to read. You've been obsessed with more power for at least the last four pages. WTF has just explained (as I have several times) that power is not the limiting factor. You can backtrack as much as you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A fool and his money..... Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 19 minutes ago, WTF said: the battery technology has nothing to do with amps and watts from a charging a point of view , it is just the size of the storage capacity of KWH and how fast it can release the stored energy , the energy has to be moved into the battery from the available charging infrastructure. Good luck getting that through to HD. He thinks more power is all that's necessary and that "distribution" is the limiting factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ingham Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 25 minutes ago, Happier diner said: All I have ever said is the chargers cannot make power that isnt there. Its will always be true. The whole conversation started when you disputed that public chrgers reach the end of their useful life before they break. You have then gone on to confirm they do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 16 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said: You can backtrack as much as you like. A volt face? 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 More nonsense from IOMGs DoI this time it’s Minister Crookall justifying the DoIs decisions to purchase diesel vehicles. From the NPM - The Department of Infrastructure says it hasn't been buying electric vehicles for its fleet because they're too expensive and there's a lack of charging points. In a written Tynwald question, the minister revealed 135 non-electric vehicles had been bought since October 2022. Tim Crookall says most were ordered as diesel due to it being cheaper and there being no on-site or overnight charging points for them. 81 were ordered as diesel due to no on site/overnight charging points being available at this time, where vehicles are parked when not in use. Six of these were petrol/diesel hybrids. 51 vehicles fall into the classification of Light Commercial, Heavy Goods or 4x4 where electric options are limited due to powering ancillary equipment on the vehicle (ie, hoist, pump), range capacities or the difference in fully laden weight restrictions. 9 blue light emergency response vehicles where primarily the time to recharge an electric vehicle could have an impact on response times. Personally it’s freedom of choice over what type of vehicle, people buy, petrol, diesel or electric. However, IOMG has been legislating, hectoring and lecturing islanders about climate change, net zero and biosphere, yet a government department can’t practice what it preaches. Not a good example to set to others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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